Tuesday, February 19, 2008

Speaking For Tex / A "Successful" Scam Is Still A Scam

As Admin for this blog, it's my "duty" to take what Tex says in his comments here and other Amway-related blogs and make legitemate blog entries out of his words and text.

Recently, Tex made a comment that I think addresses a defense by some Quixtar/Amway IBOs as to the effectiveness of the Business Support Materials used by the leaders("lying cowardly kingpins") to motivate and train their downline.

The defense is basically, "It can't be a scam because so many organizations succeed and sponsor people using the tools...you can't have that kind of growth if people are being scammed."

Tex said...

"[It's] like saying any scam is okay as long as it is producing more victims.

The key factor in being a scam isn't whether the scam is working to produce growth.

The key is whether those "succeeding" are lying about the source of their income. The growth of the 1980's was as much (or more, as more people were being scammed every year) of a scam as the stagnant growth of the past dozen years.

It is somewhat less of a scam now as there is much more information available for prospects and IBO's regarding the scam.

However, the upline continues to call anything found on the internet as "bathroom wall" writing.

But the sheer volume and reliability of the sources are becoming impossible to make this argument stick.

It will no longer be a scam when the truth is told and full tool profit transparency is available to prospects and IBO's."

112 comments:

Tex said...

For many who post, it is a way to vent, argue, or insult.

My purpose is to expose the tool scam and cause change to occur, thereby protecting hundreds of thousands of IBO's from being ripped off by the tool scam artists.

Porkchopjim said...

So,

Do the tools create a large Amway business, or a large tools business? Only IBOs buy Am/Quix tools - so if you want to expand your tools business, you have to get more IBOs: voila, growth.

Add that to the 'buy from yourself' genius method of business, and you've got yourself a perfect cover to perpetuate a tools scam hidden by a false front.

Porkchopjim said...

With the alterior motive of making money through your own tool scam.

Don't forget that.

Tex said...

As usual, your assumptions are in error.

The key lies in the prices (and resulting profit) of the tools.

Now you can answer your own questions.

I can't wait for your answers, I'm sure they will be entertaining.

Tex said...

By the way, exactly what is an "alterior" motive?

Porkchopjim said...

But my 'assumptions' aren't incorrect. They're not even assumptions - they're based on your past statements regarding 'copyrighting' your 'tools system' and hoping to charge a 'user's fee' to the kingpins to use their own materials, which you hoped would be a 'hefty amount.'

You didn't buy 10,000 tapes just to have 10,000 tapes.

An 'alterior' motive is a combination of ulterior and alternate.

Perhaps you might have realized that your 'tools system' was a stupid idea - which it is - but you shouldn't try to change history, again.

Since the key lies in the profit of the tools - which is it, Tex: do the tools make a large tools business or large Amway business?

Tex said...

Your assumptions are still incorrect. Keep trying, this is funny.

quixtarisacult said...

I have been asking myself why so many Quixtar IBO's continue to blindly blunder forward, working the biz and showing the plan in the face of so much criticism and information floating about? Then, it struck me, they have become deluded into believing that some day they will make it to the other shore and become one of the tool kingpins they basically worship. There is a problem though; the real tool kingpins would probably kill than let a small group of pretenders to their tool kingpindom have the goose that lays the golden eggs. "Homey don't play that game!" Good thing for Quixscar, there are always plenty of deceit ridden types ready to step up to the plate and try. Reminds me of the person who thinks he can win at three card monte

Porkchopjim said...

So you deny that you bought 10,000 tapes from eBay in order to establish your own tool system, and notarized a letter to Mr. DeVos in order to protect your tools system idea? I see. Glad you think that's funny - it was for us!

Anyway: you still can't seem to answer the question. Do the tools create a large tool business, or a large Amway business?

Mike said...

PCJ Asks: Do the tools create a large tool business, or a large Amway business?"

The tool business creates a tool business. As an aftermath a Amway business is created (if you want to call it that)...But the sole purpose of the AMO's is to build a tool business.

Tex said...

qiac,

The "kingpins" include Platinums and above, especially Emeralds and above. They are paid off by the higher level "kinpins" until they figure out they can get a bigger slice of the pie by going on their own. It has happened over and over again.

You are making the assumption there are no IBO's interested in the Quixtar income, and not the tool income. That is an incorrect assumption.

Tex said...

You are taking a footnote and making it front page news when it comes to the major goal of the letter.

I answered your question. Go back and review my first response, the answer lies in my answer. See if you can strain your brain and come up with the answer. I can't wait to read your "anal-ysis".

Tex said...

pcj,

Mike gave you another clue. Good luck with your answer.

Porkchopjim said...

I have long known that the 'tools' of the 'tool system' are specifically developed in order to create a large tool business, and not a large Amway one.

Did Tex finally figure that out? Did Tex finally figure out that he wasted thousands of dollars buying used tools?

So - it really shouldn't matter what the price of 'tools' or the profit associated with them. They're not tools to build an Amway business. They're the tools to build a tool business, hidden by Amway.

You refuse to answer the question, because the truth is too painful for you. You can't even type the truth you don't like.

The main purpose of your letter was to tell Rich that you were going to return Quixtar to its roots. Back to 1999? Anyway, you decided that buying thousands of dollars of used tools was the way to do that? It would take more than a letter to explain that. Oh - don't forget that you begged for money, too. Just a footnote, of course.

Porkchopjim said...

Oh - don't forget:

Note that we are copyrighting this practice, as further evidenced by the notarized seal on this letter. We believe this letter represents a description, explanation, and illustration, therefore it is copyright protected.

My point was that you notarized the letter to protect your tool system idea. Seems I was right, again. Did you forget?

Tex said...

Wrong again, on ALL counts. pcj's motto: "Flush that stinkin' brain!"

Try another guess, you have me rolling on the floor laughing.

It must suck to be so stupid. But then again, ignorance is bliss, right pcj?

Joecool said...

tex, you advocate that tools work. What do you say is a fair price for tapes and seminars?

Tex said...

You are looking at the wrong end of the telescope. The question is what is the market price, based on local conditions and how much profit the IBO's are willing to pay into the uplines' lifestyle. My guess is about 50% of the uplines' Quixtar profit is about right for tools. In other words, $100,000/year Quixtar, $50,000 tool profit. Any more than this, and the tail begins to wag the dog. However, if it works better for the upline to make more or less on tools, that is fine as well, as long as they are honest about it. The current scam artist lying cowardly "kinpgins" are not.

Joecool said...

Well, then the kingpins should just charge a bit less, and any extra should go to reduce the cost of future meetings and functions. That's what they used to say when I was an IBO. Except functions never got cheaper.

Porkchopjim said...

Wrong again, on ALL counts.

Well, I said: “The main purpose of your letter was to tell Rich that you were going to return Quixtar to its roots.”

Tex’s letter said: “The main purpose of this communication is to make you aware of a recent decision we have made to return the Quixtar business back to its roots.

Now even more people know you lie, right when it’s in front of you.

How do you explain that?

Now – you only claim that the tools work. I agree they work, to build a large tools business. Seems you still think it’s OK for upline to charge IBOs for useless items in order to profit from it – just not as much?

How do you explain that?

Tex said...

Charge a BIT less? They could charge a LOT less and still make the level of profit I mentioned.

They didn't have to charge less at a later time, most of the IBO's they lied to quit, or the IBO's who stuck around figured out the tools were the real business, so they could keep saying it.

Tex said...

Because you love to "forget" context, you followed it up with a reference to 1999, which is the wrong era to take the business back to its roots.

The difference is whether the tool profits are in the open, as I have said to you over and over and over and over again. I've decided you're plain stupid.

Porkchopjim said...

Because you love to "forget" context, you followed it up with a reference to 1999, which is the wrong era to take the business back to its roots.

You’re the one who used the name Quixtar:

”return the Quixtar business back to its roots.

Thanks for being stupid. It was a cheap shot when I laid it out there, but I didn’t know that you would be that stupid to lay it out there again. OK – yes, I did know you are that stupid. I hoped you weren’t that stupid. I gave you a chance. I KNOW that Amway was Quixtar then – and you were talking about the DeVos ‘Directly Speaking’ tapes back when Quixtar didn’t exist…yet I’m not the one who said they’d return “Quixtar” to its roots. You did.

The best you can do to discredit what I say is to act like the retard I hope you aren’t?

Again, I am forced to ask if your current behavior had anything to do with your limited Navy career. We won’t mention your limited Amway career.

The difference is whether the tool profits are in the open, as I have said to you over and over and over and over again. I've decided you're plain stupid.

Tex, you’re exceptionally stupid in that case.

What difference does it make if the ‘tool profits’ are in the open, and the tools are ineffective in the first place?

You claimed I was incorrect on all counts. Seems you didn’t read all counts, which I was correct on. HINT: I’m correct in all of them. You’re only correct on some of them…and those things that you are correct about are things I already have correct.

How much was it again that you spent on ‘tools’ once you found out there was a scam?

Tex said...

You fell into the trap, again. You "forget" context. The next two lines lines in the letter mentioned the founding of the Amway corporation (1959) and the 1983 letter, written over a dozen years prior to Quixtar existing. You know Quixtar is rooted in Amway, yet you try these cheap shots, because this is all you have. I honestly didn't think any single person could be as stupid as you are, but you have proved me wrong.

Also, your assumption the tools are ineffective is not supported by the facts. The facts are Dexter was struggling with moving his small Amway business forward, he stumbled across the idea of the tools and found they worked. It was only later when he realized there was HUGE profit potential in the tools, and take advantage of this, when things went awry.

Try as you might, you are a Stupid, Idiot, Moron.

Tex said...

I received the following request yesterday, and my response is shown first. I have changed the names and titles to protect various individual identities and E-mails.

Although I have provided humorous names, I assure you the E-mail and response are authentic. If there are any constructive topics you would like me to discuss during this visit, let me know.

Stupid posts are welcome as well, pcj, jc, rockette, etc., as it will help me illustrate to Alticor the difficulty of having a meaningful discussion via blogs.

If anyone else has received similar invitations, I would be happy to know whether you will be attending as well.

Friday, February 22, 2008 11:21:11 PM

Rich,

Thanks for asking. Yes, I am interested.

I'm not sure if I can take that entire week off of work. Does the session last the entire week?

Who else is on the panel?

Who is the audience?

Would I have an opportunity to meet with other A/A/Q folks regarding my tool profit concerns?

Thanks again.

Regards,
Tex
123-456-7890

----- Original Message ----
From: "rich.devos@alticor.com"
To: tex@xyz.com
Cc: george.bush@alticor.com; dick.cheney@alticor.com
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 10:58:35 AM
Subject: Invitation from Alticor Media Blog Administrator


Tex,

Greetings. I am the administrator for the Alticor and Amway media blogs.
George Bush, our director of compassionate capitalism, has asked me to
invite you to appear in person as a guest panelist for a blogging session
we are hosting in March.

The session is part of a larger conference that Alticor is hosting for our
global communications personnel. We feel that, given your recent input on
the media blogs, your presence at the conference would be extremely
valuable.

We would, of course, pay appropriately for your travel and lodging
expenses, as well as offer you a small monetary stipend. Would you be
interested in serving as a panelist, and if so, are you available the week
of Mon 17 Mar - Fri 21 Mar, 2008? Assuming you are available and willing
to attend, we will provide you with more information about the conference
in the coming days.

Please respond at your earliest convenience. I look forward to hearing
from you.

Regards
Rich

--
Rich DeVos
Alticor
http://alticor.com/
http://alticorblogs.com/

David Robison said...

Tex, please email me privately regarding this invitation from "Rich DeVos" and Alticor Media Blog.

Dave

Porkchopjim said...

You fell into the trap, again.

There was no trap. Making yourself look stupid isn't a trap for me.

No doubt you missed the part where I said "It was a cheap shot when I laid it out there, but I didn’t know that you would be that stupid to lay it out there again. OK – yes, I did know you are that stupid."

So, what do you do? You bring it up, again. Even after I warned you that it showed you were stupid.

Now, that's a great 'story' about Dexter and the tools...but it's just a story. Perhaps the first set of tools actually did help to build Dexter's business. What have they done lately? Do you have any of those original tools, or do you have $10-15K of newer tools - which are designed to build and perpetuate a large tools business?

You're assuming there is no difference: a tool is a tool. That assumption is not supported by the facts at all. Your tools are useless.

Tex said...

pcj,

Thanks, that is a perfect example of what I requested. Right on cue.

Tex said...

Here's an update, again with the names/titles changed "to protect the innocent":

Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 3:43:34 PM

Rich,

Interesting. Is Prague a suburb of Ada? Just kidding. I think I understand why Dick Cheney's name is on the E-mails now. Are you an Alticor employee or consulting for them?

My passport is current, so that shouldn't be an issue. I traveled throughout Europe during the Cold War days, and was unable to make it to this area, as it was behind the Iron Curtain. I am part Bohemian/Czech, so I would love to visit this area of the world.

As they say, have your people call my people (me) to work out the details. :-)

Regards,
Tex
123-456-7890

----- Original Message ----
From: "rich.devos@alticor.com"
To: tex@xyz.com
Cc: rich.devos@alticor.com; dick.cheney@alticor.com; george.bush@alticor.com
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 11:13:37 AM
Subject: Re: Invitation from Alticor Media Blog Administrator


Tex,

Thank you for your prompt reply. I am glad to hear that you are interested in attending.

The reason I asked whether you were available for the entire week is that the conference is in Prague, Czech Republic. The day we had in mind for the blogging panel is Wed 19 Mar. We'd offer to fly you in, have you stay two nights in downtown Prague, then fly you home -- all on us. Assuming you are able to take the time off, I'll have another member of our team work with you to handle travel and hotel arrangements. And, assuming you can go, you'll want to make sure that your passport is current.

We're not sure who's on the panel yet as we're still waiting to hear back from other invitees, but suffice it to say you are on a short list of fellow bloggers. The audience is a group of Amway global communications personnel. And as far as sitting down with some of those very folks to discuss your concerns, I'm sure we can work something out. After all, it's part of the reason we invited you in the first place.

Have a good day, and I look forward to your reply.

Regards,
Rich

Joecool said...

Tex, beware unless you're certain it's legit.

Tex said...

jc,

I already know some of the people I'm exchanging e-mails with.

Looks like Dave (on the road with) has been invited as well.

What do you think they're going to do, put a "contract" out on me/us?

Porkchopjim said...

I just hope they take lots of pictures!

Joecool said...

Well, as you know, this business seems to have many half truths and deception. Going to a foreign country on quixtar's dime sounds cool. I hope it's what you bargained for.

Give my regards to insider.

Tex said...

pcj,

I'm sure there will be as many pictures available as similar past conferences.

jc,

The half truths and deception are known to me.

I don't know how much time will be available for being a tourist.

I don't know whether insider will be there or not.

Are these the most meaningful ideas you have for me to carry forward to the session?

Porkchopjim said...

Tex,

Don't you know enough to bring your own 'issues' to the conference, or are you afraid once you say 'fix the tool scam' you'll be left sitting there silent?

Other than pretending that you understand what is going on in the UK and India, what could you possibly offer to an international crowd? You don't have an international business. You don't even have a regular Quixtar business any bigger than mine.

It's a fine PR stunt they are trying to put together.

Perhaps you can unveil your 'tool system' to the world!

Tex said...

Thanks for a second example of what I was referring to, pcj. Keep them coming. Come on, you can do it!

Tex said...

Just to demonstrate how stupid your last post was, here's my response to your stupid points:

I have plenty of my own issues to bring to the conference, and teh tool scam has many facets that can be discussed for hours, if not days, on end. As you should have noticed, they even responded the tool scam is why I'm being invited in the first place. I'll be as silent speaking as I am lacking for written comments on blogs.

I'm not pretending anything when it comes to the UK or India, and I'll have plenty of facts to contribute to the international crowd. I wasn't invited because I have an international business (not that you would know), or because my Quixtar business is bigger than yours (not that you would know that, either). However, my business is bigger than Don Wilson's, Orrin Woodward's, Chuck Goetschel's, and Billy Florence's, Don Storm's, Bruce Anderson's, Brig Hart's, Ken Stewart's, all the (former) Morrison group Emeralds and above, and all the TIF (former) Diamonds, combined!

It's not a "PR stunt", it's an annual conference they hold.

I don't need to unveil my tool system to the world, I've done that numerous times on several blogs. Where have you been? Don't answer that question, I know the answer. Your head has been placed firmly where it is dark and brown.

Ty Tribble said...

Here is my problem with Tex and his flawed logic...

Tex assumes that Quixtar (minus the tools fiasco) is a good business opportunity.

It's simply not.

You get no argument from me that the IBO leaders make too much money from the sales of tools and meetings, but the fact that these leaders make most of their money from the training is also a testament to the poor compensation plan from Quixtar.

Tex said...

Ty,

When I and millions of others saw the A/Q marketing plan, we were shown the A/Q profit, not the massive overhead and hidden tool scam profits.

A/Q has a wide variety of products, so if they have been around for almost half a century and pay out a little less than most companies, most of which crash and burn in a short period of time, so be it.

I would rather pay a little more to have a long term business and the necessary R&D to back it up and make ongoing improvements, than make the quick bucks with companies that are here today, gone tomorrow.

You only have to build a little larger business to have similar profit as other companies, and a much wider array of high quality products to choose from to create that profit.

There's NOTHING flawed with my logic, as shown above. You're just plain WRONG.

Take your sad story back to your MLM and stop putting down A/Q. Go peddle your "training secrets to MLM" with Bo "the tool scammer" Short somewhere else, you slimy slithering snake-oil salesman.

Porkchopjim said...

It's not a "PR stunt", it's an annual conference they hold.

An annual blogging conference? Must be a secret conference.

You still haven't addressed how contradicting yourself makes me wrong.

Anyway - that conference would be a perfect opportunity to address how beneficial the tools are. How they 'work' while they sit in boxes in your house.

Ty Tribble said...

Nice. How old are you Tex?

Is the name calling needed?

By the way, have you hit 2500PV yet?

Ty Tribble said...

P.S. It's a myth that every company outside of Amway/Quixtar is here today and gone tomorrow.

The industry of Network Marketing has doubled in the last 10 years. Quixtar has not.

Tex said...

No, it's a corporate communications conference, the blogging session will be one part of the overall conference. You look really stupid when you make statements instead of asking questions. Keep it up, that's 3 posts since making my request for stupid posts.

Tex said...

Ty,

You're an idiot. You try to use the term "flawed logic" without asking a single question, then accuse ME of calling YOU names. Nice try, but it doesn't work with me, Ty. Poor little "victim" Ty. Oh boo-hoo.

I noticed you had ZERO comeback for the points I made. That's because there is no comeback without making things up or lying, both of which are specialties of yours.

I'm old enough to make you expose your stupidity. That means I'm at least 12, you loser.

By the way, have you hit 10 on the IQ charts yet?

Mike said...

From what I can gather, and please correct me if I am wrong..cause I don't wanna put words in your mouth..here goes.

(By tools, this includes Books, tapes, functions and prospecting stuff...)

The essence of your quest is making the tools a non-profit aspect of building an Amway business. Where the IBO's will not be forced to purchase the tools and the cost will be low enough as to not cause an unbalanced loss over profit.

Tex said...

Mike,

It doesn't have to be non-profit. The key is transparency regarding the level of profit being made, and all the free market to control the prices. You can't have a free market when there is secrecy between those teaching and those learning, especially when those teaching claim to be the "business partners" and "teammates" of those learning. See the posts during February 22nd.

Porkchopjim said...

No, not quite, Mike.

Tex's hypothesis is that the tools work, but the profit upline makes from selling tools to downline makes it too expensive for new IBOs to make a profit, so they quit.

He used to be at the 20% 'Directly Speaking' level, but he seems to have moved to 50%. Also, Tex has modified his 'plan' (which he hasn't shown in quite some time) to include the 'tool scam' profits...which he can only guess at the amount.

No, it's a corporate communications conference, the blogging session will be one part of the overall conference.

Duh. Having you show up is the PR stunt.

You look really stupid when you make statements instead of asking questions.

You have no information I need, at all.

Keep it up, that's 3 posts since making my request for stupid posts.

Whereas we don't have to ask you for stupid posts - we get them automatically.

I noticed you had ZERO comeback for the points I made. That's because there is no comeback without making things up or lying, both of which are specialties of yours.

Funny how that's what I have been consistently showing is your problem since day one. Seems you know that's a problem, but transferring it to others doesn't help you. It just shows I'm right, again.

Tex said...

pcj,

I've said for a VERY long time the 20% was Rich's level, and I could go higher if the level of profit was known. You're a blatant liar.

I don't have to know the EXACT level of every LOS/LOA tool scam to call it a scam. You're an idiot.

If you think blogs aren't an important part of public relations/reputation, etc., you are stupid. Oops, that's been confirmed already. Why would A/Q start their own blog if they thought the other blogs were meaningless? Moron.

I've responded to ALL of your comments. The rare intelligent ones as well as the much more common stupid ones.

Porkchopjim said...

I've said for a VERY long time the 20% was Rich's level, and I could go higher if the level of profit was known. You're a blatant liar.

Define 'VERY long time' - because as of June 6, 2005 - you were still on 20%. You can't make things up just to try to call me a liar.

I don't have to know the EXACT level of every LOS/LOA tool scam to call it a scam. You're an idiot.

Seeing as you don't know the level of any existing 'tool scam' - you got pretty excited about 'quixtartools' which was a blatant profit vehicle for web-services (same as ibonetwork - when are they going to start charging for that?) without knowing any profit level. Go right ahead and call me an idiot - once again unsupported.

If you think blogs aren't an important part of public relations/reputation, etc., you are stupid.

Not the point, fool. That they include you is a PR stunt. It would be nice if you didn't have to keep making things up to try to have a point.

I've responded to ALL of your comments.

Responding doesn't excuse avoiding answering the questions...well, for sane people, that is.

Porkchopjim said...

Oh - BTW,

I am familiar with the 'cold war period' and 'behind the iron curtain.'

People went behind all the time. Military people went behind all the time as well. It wasn't prohibited. So, it's obvious that 'that area' wasn't some place that you considered going to during that period - because you would have known that.

So, you just got caught making something up, again. Do you have ANYTHING that you haven't made up - other than your pathetic Amway performance? I'm starting to think that you weren't even ever close to the 1000PV you claimed you hit in the past.

Ty Tribble said...

Tex,

Keep up the good work on the name calling.

Enjoy this...

1. If you did any research you would find that the fastest growing companies in Network Marketing today are one product or have an extremely focused product line (like weight loss).

2. Hundreds of products that are priced too high in the first place is not a benefit.

3. I believe you will find that the value and quality of Quixtar/Amway products takes a dive once people figure out that the business is not going to help them accomplish their goals. If the products were so great, more people would stay on as customers after they stop building. Simple as that. The Amway/Quixtar products are good, but they are overpriced.

4. Lots of companies are stable and have solid R & D, in fact several companies have solid patents behind their products.

5. You don't just have to build "a little larger business" to match up with other companies...when you include product pricing (and PV to $), compensation and reputation, you have to work multiple times harder.

Dude, why should anyone listen to you? You haven't achieved anything, except the award for getting banned from the most web sites related to Quixtar.

One of us earns 6 figures in Network Marketing and one of us hasn't ever earned a profit....yet you have the guts to call the 6 figure earner a loser.

Makes perfect sense.

Tex said...

Wow, almost 3 years ago I mentioned Rich's 20% number. I'm not going to go to qblog to look up the date, but it wasn't very long after that I said I could easily go higher, as long as it was transparent to the IBO's. In other words, most of the time I've been aware the tool profit has been MA$$IVE I've advocated transparency over a specific amount. You know that, but that's what makes you an idiot, so keep doing what comes natural.

You could use quixtartools for free without using the other services (and it has been restarted under a different name, by the way and still free). The only thing you paid for was a totally optional and largely unrelated add-on service. I don't know when ibonetwork is going to start charging, why don't you ask them? However, when it does start, I expect it to be in the $10/month neighborhood. Plus, they won't have the situation of being our upline, calling their downline their "teammates" and "business partners" and lying about the source of their lifestyle. They will be providing a service as an independent entity.

I doubt the evidence I provided Quixtar regarding Orrin and Co., which (partially) led to their terminations/resignations could be considered a "PR stunt".

Many of your questions have been answered numerous times in the past, so I'm not going to keep answering all of them over and over again.

Tex said...

Ty,

You started the name calling, I'm just firing back. I consider you jumping into the middle of a conversation accusing me of having faulty logic as name calling, so I will keep it up until you apologize.

Enjoy this...

1. If you did any research you would find that the fastest growing companies in Network Marketing today are one product or have an extremely focused product line (like weight loss), and most of them fail for one reason or another shortly after they get started.

2. Hundreds of products that are priced too high in the first place is not a benefit, but there are millions of products available via A/Q that ARE priced competitively.

3. I believe you will find that the value and quality of Quixtar/Amway products takes a dive once people figure out that the business is not going to help them accomplish their goals. ---- This depends what their goals are. Are their goals things like going Emerald and retiring, owning Motorcoaches, homes, boats, vehicles, etc., based on the tool scam, or going Emerald and obtaining goals based on A/Q income?

If the products were so great, more people would stay on as customers after they stop building. Simple as that. The Amway/Quixtar products are good, but they are overpriced. ---- No, it isn't "as simple as that." There is personal financial debt, hurting feelings, being lied to, etc., involved that makes your "simple as that" statement far to simplistic compared to reality.

4. Lots of companies are stable and have solid R & D, in fact several companies have solid patents behind their products. ---- I never said there are ZERO other companies that do things for the long term, but how many of them have been around for almost a half century and have $7 billion/year worldwide volume?

5. You don't just have to build "a little larger business" to match up with other companies...when you include product pricing (and PV to $), compensation and reputation, you have to work multiple times harder. ---- You are ignoring the variety of products available to create volume, you are cherry picking the high priced products, and the reputation can be repaired. I'm not saying we're there yet, but when the above are considered and the tool scam is shut down, it won't be "multiple times harder" to build an Amway business.

Dude, why should anyone listen to you? You haven't achieved anything, except the award for getting banned from the most web sites related to Quixtar. ---- I should be listened to because I have the facts. The Quixtar lawyers and executives are listening to me, why should I be concerned a spineless and gutless former IBO who doesn't want to fix the problems doesn't want to listen to me?

One of us earns 6 figures in Network Marketing and one of us hasn't ever earned a profit....yet you have the guts to call the 6 figure earner a loser. ---- You could be making Bill Gates money, it doesn't change the facts regarding the tool scam, which has negatively affected literally millions of former and current Distributors/IBO's for several decades, and caused them to be ripped off by at least 100's of millions, if not 10's of billions of dollars.

Makes perfect sense. ---- You bet it does...now.

Tex said...

pcj,

Oh - BTW,

Are you familiar with traveling Europe AFTER leaving the military and the travel restrictions? Idiot. I didn't give the reason I was unable, because it isn't the main topic of this thread or the e-mail I sent. I simply didn't want to go to the trouble of traveling in these areas, and there was already plenty of things to see without going there and the extra trouble it would have taken. Stupid.

You keep trying to "nit-pick", but it doesn't work, pcj.

So, you just got caught nit-picking, again. Do you have ANYTHING that you haven't made up - other than your pathetic blog performance? I'm starting to think that you weren't even ever close to the 10 point IQ you claimed you hit in the past.

Mike said...

Mike stated " The essence of your quest is making the tools a non-profit aspect of building an Amway business. Where the IBO's will not be forced to purchase the tools and the cost will be low enough as to not cause an unbalanced loss over profit.

Tex replied

"Mike, It doesn't have to be non-profit. The key is transparency regarding the level of profit being made, and all the free market to control the prices. You can't have a free market when there is secrecy between those teaching and those learning, especially when those teaching claim to be the "business partners" and "teammates" of those learning. "

Okay, so if I understand this correctly.

You want to have a tools system that is profitable, and that those in the business aka downline, are aware of the profit made by the sales of tools.

Tex said...

As I said, the tools could be for profit or non-profit. Different LOS/LOA's can choose for themselves. The key isn't whether they are profitable or not, the key is whether there is transparency to whatever the profit level may be. With transparency, there is little chance you will find IBO's buying tools creating tool profit that is multiple times A/Q profit.

I personally believe there should be some profit, as I am a capitalist and a strong believer in the profit motive causing a better quality product. It also costs time, effort, and money to produce tools, so it isn't wrong to be compensated for these things and make a profit from the tools.

However, a free market is free to choose the level of profit, and it isn't free if a tool profit level is dictated.

Again, the key isn't the level of tool profit, the key is the level of profit transparency. With transparency, you have a true free market that will control the profit level.

Tex said...

See Ty, when you ask questions like Mike did, you don't get called names by me.

But when you're a known A/Q critic and barge into a conversation by starting out saying, "Tex has flawed logic....", you get called names back that accurately describe YOUR behavior.

mike said...

I think I understand what you are saying.

That the tools are a means to make a profit or not, depends on those creating the tools, regardless, as long as they make that public information.

So in the following examples, which would be wrong according to you

1... I sell my tools to my downline and I tell them I make $1.00 for each one I sell.

2...I sell my tools to my downline for cost. And my downline knows this

3...I sell my tools to my downline, I make $1.00 for each one I sell, but I don't share that information.

Joecool said...

So Tex, what exactly is the anticiapted outcome of this conference that quixtar is inviting you to attend?

Tex said...

Mike,

That's easy. Read the 10 Commandments, especially #8 and 9. Even if you are not religious, these ideas (especially #5-10) are suitable to maintain a decent society, and are the basis for our laws and legal structure.

For #1, I assumed you actually make $1 and not a greater amount.

With this framework, it is easy to conclude #3 is immoral and unethical, if not illegal. Agreed?

Tex said...

jc,

I expect to get a lot more out of time spent away from the blogging roundtable discussion than in it.

During the blogging discussion session, I expect to hammer the LCK factor being the primary reason I am on the blogs, and have discussions with A/A/Q executives outside of the formal setting.

I doubt there will be decisions made regarding the tool scam and LCK's during this week, but the transferring of facts, information, and insights in both directions, as well as further development of the relationships and trust necessary to make these changes, are my goals.

I wouldn't mind bumping into a couple of LCK's while I'm there, either. As I mentioned to pcj a while back, perhaps I should make up a tee-shirt that has "I'm with LCK" written on it, and an arrow point to the side. Now THAT would make a great picture.

Joecool said...

Tex, even if you hammer the message, what makes you think it will effect any serious change?

BTW, I hope you run into bill britt and take that picture. :P

Tex said...

jc,

Tex, even if you hammer the message, what makes you think it will effect any serious change? ---- Confidence and optimism. Also, the negative impact of not making serious changes. Do you ALWAYS look on the negative side of things?

BTW, I hope you run into bill britt and take that picture. :P ---- Thanks for the reminder, I will need my wide angle lense for Jabba.

mike said...

Tex stated.."Mike, That's easy. Read the 10 Commandments, especially #8 and 9."

I would go with the first Commandment and the rest follow it.


Tex states "With this framework, it is easy to conclude #3
( 3...I sell my tools to my downline, I make $1.00 for each one I sell, but I don't share that information.) is immoral and unethical, if not illegal. Agreed?

no.. it is not immoral, unethical or illegal..now I would state that if they were asked if they made a profit from selling tools..and they said no..that would be wrong.

The main issue about the tools, is not the price or that a select few are making money from them, regardless of how truthful they are bout it.

The main issue of the tools..is what they are preaching..the gospel of greed and desire.

Go to the first commandment..and then work from there.....

Tex said...

jc,

Serious question. Regarding my negative question above, have you considered changing your name to Eeyore?

Or would this make it confusing, as many other bloggers would also claim the name?

Tex said...

I see, it's okay for you to hide profit from your self-proclaimed "business partners" and "teammates", as long as you are silent about it. Your God is NOT my God.

The main issue about the tools, is the price and that a select few are making money from them, because of how untruthful they are about it.

The main issue of the tools..is what they are preaching..the gospel of greed and desire. ---- You need to read the Bible more, there is NOTHING wrong with making money in an honest manner, as long as you don't replace God with money. There are many stories in the Bible that back this up.

You are preaching the gospel of poverty, false humility, and irresponsibility. These are NOT Biblical principles.

Go to the first commandment..and then work from there..... ---- Agreed, but where you went is not Biblical.

Joecool said...

tex said: Serious question. Regarding my negative question above, have you considered changing your name to Eeyore?

Joe says: Tex, laying out the truth can be seen as negative. Even if tools were sold without profit, the system still doesn't work.

Quixtar's own numbers prove it.
1 in 5 IBOs are able to sposnor someone. $115 average IBO income -before expenses.

Why would any of this change because ofthe price of tools?

IBOs and some folks like yourself need a dose or truth. It's like people informing you that one in a million win the lottery and you say - but dam the odds, I'm positive so I'm going to be that one in a million. Good attitude but still more than likele not a winner.

Tex said...

Joe says: Tex, laying out the truth can be seen as negative. Even if tools were sold without profit, the system still doesn't work. ---- Really? Ever done it that way? I think Dexter did in the beginning, and his results were outstanding.

Quixtar's own numbers prove it.
1 in 5 IBOs are able to sposnor someone. $115 average IBO income -before expenses. ---- Again, these numbers came primarily from the tool scammed IBO's. The key words are "before expenses." See below.

Why would any of this change because of the price of tools? ---- The PV needed to make a net profit would be much lower, so more people would be making money, raising the reputation, seeing a much brighter light at the end of each shorter tunnel, much lower turnover, etc. What you are confusing is AVERAGE income and NET income. The AVERAGE income will ALWAYS be low, because by definition, on AVERAGE many more IBO's are at LOWER levels. NET income is the result of taking away the tool scam costs, resulting in NET profit sooner and the much higher likelihood of staying in.

Eeyores and most critics like yourself need a dose or truth. It's NOT like people informing you that one in a million win the lottery and you say - but dam[n] the odds, I'm positive so I'm going to be that one in a million. Instead, it is a BUSINESS that must be BUILT. But if the business is full of lies your are building on quicksand. You have a bad attitude AND an inaccurate set of "facts", Eeyore.

Joecool said...

Tex said: Really? Ever done it that way? I think Dexter did in the beginning, and his results were outstanding.

Joe says: Yes, and that was many years ago. Dexter at the time (I believe) truly usedthe tapes to teach people. However, years later and qith a horrible reputation, most IBOs can't sponsor enough people to keep up with attrition.

To think or suggest otherwise, seems a bit ignorant of what's going on around you.

Tex said...

jc/Eeyore,

You just admitted the tools work, but not when the prices are too high, create MA$$IVE profits, AND the profit becomes known. Provide transparency, lower the tool and product prices, and the good reputation returns. Simple economics and honesty.

Speaking of negative, did you see Orrin's blog? He stated about 20k people showed up, which I think is less than half the Louisville function last fall.

This should be expected, as normal turnover without the (legal) ability to replace them, some seeing the truth thanks to yours truly and others (note to pcj, it was ALL me, really), and some waiting to see something more solid before committing, etc., all contributed to the lower numbers.

However, it appears the claims that "my TEAM group has grown since getting kicked out" are either false or not typical.

Orrin's got his work cut out for him, but he's a talented liar, so he shouldn't have any problem.

Ty Tribble said...

OK Tex,

If Quixtar/Amway is so great, why haven't you turned a real profit?

I seem to recall you saying that you have been in the business for 10 years...10 years is a log time without making money.

Nice to see you get one post out without name calling and I don't see how suggesting that your logic is flawed has anything to do with name calling.

You base your logic on "facts" that are not true, like the one about all of these companies going out of business in the Network Marketing industry. (It's simply not true) I am not suggesting jumping on some start up, but there are companies out their doing millions (some hundreds of millions) in the U.S. that are growing and stable, some even have billion dollar backing.

It's the same flawed logic you apply across the board...like a million products that are priced too high as a benefit. A 50 year old company with billion dollar ownership is worthless to you if you can't turn a sizable income after 10 years.

Joecool said...

Hey Ty, tex hasn't made money in about 15 years even though he's got a garage full of tools.

We also know now that the self proclaimed "expert" insider also was a nothing pin who probably didn't make any significant profit.

Seems like A/Q has many pretenders, but not that many achievers.

Tex said...

Ty,

Where did you get the false idea I think A/Q is "great?" Haven't you been listening, there's a tool scam going on that needs to be cleaned up. THAT'S why I'm here, THEN I will put more effort into building my A/Q business.

Sorry about slipping up, you're still an idiot. Just check the drool running down your cheek for proof.

I never said "ALL" MLM companies go out of business, you LYING MORON.

How do you come to the conclusion there are "millions" of A/Q products that are overpriced? That was an especially stupid comment, did you get it from Bo? Does "Bo know?" Slither back into the gutter, Ty.

jc,

The tools are not in my garage, they are in my house, which has much better temperature/humidity control.

I never pretended to be a big pin, you flaming idiot. I have said before and I'll say it again, I am now glad I wasn't "successful" under the tool scam regime. But I do have the facts, truth, and logic, things you are sorely lacking, Eeyore.

Joecool said...

tex said: I never pretended to be a big pin.

Joe says: That's because you never even went 2500. Someone who stays in the bidness for all those years without profiting is someone fighting a lost cause.

Didn't an LCK say insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results?

Tex said...

Joe says: That's because you never even went 2500. Someone who stays in the bidness for all those years without profiting is someone fighting a lost cause. ---- You missed the point, Eeyore. Are you sure this isn't ibofb signing on as jc/Eeyore? Try again you sad sack of excrement.

Didn't an LCK say insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results? ---- I've heard non-LCK's say that. I agree with that statement, by the way. That's why I'm doing something different. If anything, you have to agree I'm taking the road less traveled. MUCH less traveled. But it's the right one.

mike said...

Tex states " That's why I'm doing something different. If anything, you have to agree I'm taking the road less traveled. MUCH less traveled. But it's the right one."

Tex I gotta say that is the way to go..I mean you have an idea, a concept to make the business work..to be up front about the business..and darn it..I hope it works for ya.

However, it is those darn product prices and how the Amway biz is structured, that will cause problems.

If you dump the "tool income" you have the Amway income..and well that is not gonna pull in the folks,..not gonna build dreams with Amway income..well for some yes..

Yes 100,000 plus a year for diamond is great..is a nice income even if half is used as expenses.

50,000 is a nice income..but is it worth the effort..maybe..it is or not.

but unless one can get to that level without getting in any debt, or at least a reasonalble debt, something that can be paid off within a few years..(the time that diamond level is acheived),,if not it is a waste of time.

The thing is to get others to understand that, it is a matter of time..the slower a person is builing the business..the more it cost.....therefore if someone from the start is aware of what it takes....to make it in the biz, cost, expenses and the time involved...if not, you will need tools to keep them in....which is a waste of time and money.

Basically I am saying that tools are used to fix something that is broke.

think about that for a moment...

Tex said...

Mike,

Thanks for your support...I think. Some of your writing is difficult for me to follow.

Regarding prices, there are plenty of core line products that are competitive, I expect prices to fall further, as many have in the UK, and most of the prices of millions of products in the partner stores are competitively priced. I even saw they are removing the extra charge for paper product delivery.

You can still build dreams, just not the ridiculous ones without a very large business.

Why would a Diamond have to spend half of $100,000/year for expenses?

Why should ANYONE expect to have to go into debt to go Diamond (or Platinum, for that matter)?

Why would building it slower cost more? Wouldn't it cost more to build it fast? Think of the additional miles to drive, you may even have to buy more tools (from the lying cowardly "kingpins", not me), etc.

Why is it a waste of time and money if tools keep them in? Isn't that the idea? Did you know I have well over 12,000 tapes/CD's that cost me less than $0.20 each, and less than $2 for hundreds of books, including shipping. Figure in passing the tools around to others rather than listening/reading them once (if that, as many of them are still in their wrappers), and you have a virtually free tool system from this perspective. Figure zero major function cost and greatly reduced seminar cost, and you have a recipe for extremely low overhead and a much quicker path to net profit, not to mention an honest business.

I'm don't get what you are saying with this statement, "Basically I am saying that tools are used to fix something that is broke."

Tex said...

Last sentence above should have stated, "I don't get...."

mike said...

Tex states "I'm don't get what you are saying with this statement, "Basically I am saying that tools are used to fix something that is broke."


That sums it up...that is it in a nutshell..I could do no more if I put a ribbon around it..the tool business is necessary for the Amway business to work.

The tools are the big con in the game of Amway...regardless of cost..without tools you have no business.

The only thing that is needed for the IBO is profit..without that there is no business...then it is a hobby...

Tex what I suggest..is ya look in the mirror and ask yourself..

Is all of this worth it..do I need to keep doing this..or could I just live my life..and be happy.

Build your Amway business..go out there and do what you need to do to make it work..then when you are raking in the money..having more cash than you need..

Then come back and shove it in our faces..otherwise..you present yourself as a fool..this is not an insult..but what you are preceived as....

prove me wrong...seriously

Tex said...

That sums it up...that is it in a nutshell..I could do no more if I put a ribbon around it..the tool business is necessary for the Amway business to work. ---- Are you saying there isn't enough money with the Amway money (without or with significantly reduced tool scam money) to have a business profitable enough to make it worthwhile? Do you realize most IBO's are shown a marketing plan that relies SOLEY on Amway money? If what you're saying is true, nobody should be getting in when shown the plan. This isn't true.

The tools are the big con in the game of Amway...regardless of cost..without tools you have no business. ---- The tools in their present form (pricing) ARE the big con, but if you reduce the cost significantly, then there is no con job possible, as there isn't much money left over to create the scam in the form of hidden profit. Do you understand this simple concept?

The only thing that is needed for the IBO is profit..without that there is no business...then it is a hobby... ---- Agreed. The question is whether it is primarily a product profit business or tool scam business. Also, keep in mind every dollar paid to the upline in the form of tool scam profit is a dollar lost by the IBO. Generally, the upline is making more Amway money, so in this case they make even more, while those not making as much Amway money are making less (or in most cases, "making" a greater net loss).

Tex what I suggest..is ya look in the mirror and ask yourself.. ---- I've looked, and I like what I see myself doing.

Is all of this worth it..do I need to keep doing this..or could I just live my life..and be happy. ---- You miss the point. My "mission" is to be happy by shutting down the tool scam, so that millions of other IBO's don't get ripped off in the future, just as millions of IBO's have already been ripped off in the past. Every time an event like Morrison, Stewart, Anderson, TIF, Storms, TEAM, IBS, UK BWW, Jerry Harteis, Fred Harteis, etc., happens, I have a happy day. Even if they aren't resigning/terminated as a direct result of the tool scam, they reveal information regarding the tool scam, and the end result is more people are not getting ripped off by the tool scam. I have been a VERY happy guy lately. The bad guys are losing. It's not time to stop pushing, however.

Build your Amway business..go out there and do what you need to do to make it work..then when you are raking in the money..having more cash than you need.. ---- I am building my Amway business, the first step is to get the tool scam shut down. Without that taking place, it is likely what is happening in the UK (potential shutdown) will happen in the U.S. What you don't understand is this isn't just about me, myself, and I. It's about millions of people, multiple decades, and up to 10's of billions of tool scam profits. As the upline says, take your eyes off yourself and think about others, for a change.

Then come back and shove it in our faces..otherwise..you present yourself as a fool..this is not an insult..but what you are preceived as.... ---- There's nothing to shove in anyone's face except the tool scam facts. If I'm such a fool, why do I have the attention of the corporate lawyers and executives? Why am I being invited to the Communication Conference in the Czech Republic next month? One of us is the fool, but it isn't me Mike.

Tex said...

I just proved you wrong, seriously.

Outsider said...

Or quixtar could be just inviting you to the conference so you can make a fool out of yourself.

Tex said...

Too bad you're not invited, or I would gladly expose you for the fool that you are.

Outsider said...

As opposed to you who's an already exposed fool.

Tex said...

Outsider,

Too bad all you can do is call names with ZERO facts to back it up.

That's the stuff fools do.

Outsider said...

The FACT is you are a fool.

LOL

You're like the little chicken running around, but instead of crying "the sky is falling", tex runs around squealing "the tools scam, the tools scam".

Tex said...

And Tex gets invited to overseas conferences.

And Tex provides information that likely helped lead to the termination of lying cowardly "kingpins".

And Tex provides information that will probably be used in the lying cowardly "kingpins'" arbitration proceedings.

If I'm a fool, you're a puddle of drool. You have NOTHING except name calling, I have hard facts and solid logic.

Tex said...

The FACT is the upline makes most of their profit via the tool scam, right out of our back pockets, then lies about it, pretending their lifestyle came from Quixtar. Drool over that one for a while.

Outsider said...

"And Tex provides information that likely helped lead to the termination of lying cowardly "kingpins"."

"And Tex provides information that will probably be used in the lying cowardly "kingpins'" arbitration proceedings."


LOL - LMAO - ROFL

If you truly believe quixtar was in the dark about all of this, you really are a fool. An ignorant one at that!

Tex said...

I didn't say they were in the dark, I said I helped them with additional information/evidence. Stop drooling on yourself for a second and READ my posts, this time for comprehension.

Tex said...

pcj said on qblog: "Otherwise, sometimes I have trouble seeing at night. Which means, on the beach I will frequently walk right off dunes. I've also been known to crash head-on into pillars when I walk from a sunny to a dark area. Both of those my wife finds VERY funny."

Hit your head quite a few too many times, pcj.

Porkchopjim said...

So, what actions has Amway taken on your advice to fix the tools scam?

Or, are they using you to get rid of kingpins who expose the tools scam?

Also, what special rules applied to people who were removed from the military that didn't apply to those folks who weren't removed as far as going to the 'Eastern Bloc'?

Why am I being invited to the Communication Conference in the Czech Republic next month?

Because it's a PR stunt, and you're the main freak-show.

Some of your writing is difficult for me to follow.

Yeah - it's hard. You shouldn't be so upset when we accuse you of not understanding what you read. It's just the truth.

Tex said...

So, what actions has Amway taken on your advice to fix the tools scam? ---- Not enough, but things are changing. Did you notice Fred "don't count me in the TEAM lawsuit" Harteis is now gone? Why wouldn't he just slide into the background and "retire", so he could keep collecting his Quixtar checks?

Or, are they using you to get rid of kingpins who expose the tools scam? ---- They are "using" me to say things on their blog they would like to say, but obviously can't.

Also, what special rules applied to people who were removed from the military that didn't apply to those folks who weren't removed as far as going to the 'Eastern Bloc'? ---- I wasn't "removed", I chose to go from active duty to inactive reserve status. I also explained why I didn't go to the eastern parts of Europe, above.

Because it's a PR stunt, and you're the main freak-show. ---- yawn.

Yeah - it's hard. You shouldn't be so upset when we accuse you of not understanding what you read. It's just the truth. ---- yawn.

Porkchopjim said...

Not enough, but things are changing.

i.e. - nothing. Both you and Amway have been claiming things are changing for, in Tex speak, "A VERY long time."

Accreditation. Coma.
Quixtar University. Coma.
First Circle. Coma.
Pricing. Coma.
Change the name, again. Yawn.
Do ANYTHING about the 'tools'. Still stone cold dead.

That's a hell of an impact you have there, considering you've only been 'involved' in the 'tools' portion.

Why wouldn't he just slide into the background and "retire", so he could keep collecting his Quixtar checks?

Beats me. Who's selling tools to his remaining IBOs?

They are "using" me to say things on their blog they would like to say, but obviously can't.

In that case, I guess they used me, too. Or, they just let me post and I didn't invent some secret mission for myself to be the voice of the corporation.

That would be the corporation that you claim to criticize, but whose recognition is the pinnacle of your "I love Amway/I hate Amway" career.

Appears that they're just using you to get rid of the kingpins that expose the tools. Once a pawn, always a pawn.

I noticed the audience was a bunch of Amway communication types. Not anyone who does anything other than spin cover for the corp...which hasn't been working. They're getting their asses handed to them by the 'soap opera' sites. You'll provide valuable information to them about those 'soap opera' sites - as your success there speaks for itself.

How's Amway going to cut prices when they're flying their entire communications army to Europe to listen to you say 'tools scam'? Yeah, they're real serious about change. Make sure to tell them that they can't change their reputation with incompetent PR people who first try to Google-bomb, and then set up as many sites as they can to cover a second attempt...which doesn't really work when you've driven the crowd down to about 5 people. They actually have to change.

I also explained why I didn't go to the eastern parts of Europe, above.

Because of all the 'trouble' - which I know wasn't that much trouble for active duty folks, nevermind those who went 'inactive'. I asked what special rules you had that active duty didn't. You didn't answer, again. See that understanding problem you mentioned earlier.

Tex said...

Accreditation. ---- Was optional, now mandatory.
Quixtar University. ---- New modules being added all the time.
First Circle. ---- Will take care of itself when the tool scam goes away and some of the prices are reduced and noncompetitively priced products dropped.
Pricing. ---- XS syrup is cheaper, Simply Nutrilite is cheaper, new Artistry is cheaper. Expect to see other changes similar to what has happened in the UK. You're just not paying attention, as usual.
Change the name, again. ---- Best change of all, got some of the rats off the ship.
Do ANYTHING about the 'tools'. ---- Again, you're not paying attention to what's happening in India and the UK. Or why Fred Harteis quit, the broke loser that he is.
That's a hell of an impact you have there, considering you've only been 'involved' in the 'tools' portion. ---- Thanks.

Beats me. Who's selling tools to his remaining IBOs? ---- I don't know. It could be months before a replacement is found, based on my personal experience.

In that case, I guess they used me, too. Or, they just let me post and I didn't invent some secret mission for myself to be the voice of the corporation. ---- Or, you're an idiot. I'll go with that one.

That would be the corporation that you claim to criticize, but whose recognition is the pinnacle of your "I love Amway/I hate Amway" career. ---- yawn.

Appears that they're just using you to get rid of the kingpins that expose the tools. Once a pawn, always a pawn. ---- As long as the lying cowardly "kingpins" leave, call me whatever you want.

I noticed the audience was a bunch of Amway communication types. Not anyone who does anything other than spin cover for the corp...which hasn't been working. They're getting their asses handed to them by the 'soap opera' sites. You'll provide valuable information to them about those 'soap opera' sites - as your success there speaks for itself. ---- So you know the attendee list? Please do tell.

How's Amway going to cut prices when they're flying their entire communications army to Europe to listen to you say 'tools scam'? Yeah, they're real serious about change. Make sure to tell them that they can't change their reputation with incompetent PR people who first try to Google-bomb, and then set up as many sites as they can to cover a second attempt...which doesn't really work when you've driven the crowd down to about 5 people. They actually have to change. ---- I think a $7 Billion/year company can afford it. I think we're way past the google bombing run, lesson learned.

Because of all the 'trouble' - which I know wasn't that much trouble for active duty folks, nevermind those who went 'inactive'. I asked what special rules you had that active duty didn't. You didn't answer, again. See that understanding problem you mentioned earlier. ---- yawn.

Porkchopjim said...

Accreditation. ---- Was optional, now mandatory.

Mandatory as in groups will be kicked out, or they won't get the QBI? There's a difference. When a kingpin makes all his bucks from tools, what does he care about the QBI?

Besides – what has that done for the level of ‘tool profit’? You don’t know. You can only guess. Typical.

Quixtar University: the ‘new modules’ are a fine advertisement. You take all the business courses yet?

First Circle is going to take care of itself? That's a heck of good plan. Looks like they dropped that one.

XS syrup is cheaper, Big seller that? Cheaper than what? Buying XS?

Simply Nutrilite is cheaper Cheaper than what? It’s a new line, isn’t it?

new Artistry is cheaper. Cheaper than what?

Expect to see other changes similar to what has happened in the UK. You're just not paying attention, as usual.

What changes? Is the organization formally known as DTI coming to the USA?

Change the name, again. ---- Best change of all, got some of the rats off the ship.

Oh, I thought is was because they ‘broke the rules.’ Or, you’re just making things up.

Do ANYTHING about the 'tools'. ---- Again, you're not paying attention to what's happening in India and the UK.

That ‘India Recommendations’ letter was really important. You don’t even know if any of those recommendations were enacted.

Who's selling tools to his remaining IBOs? ---- I don't know. It could be months before a replacement is found, based on my personal experience.

People go without tools for months?

In that case, I guess they used me, too. Or, they just let me post and I didn't invent some secret mission for myself to be the voice of the corporation. ---- Or, you're an idiot. I'll go with that one.

Suit yourself. I’m not the one claiming to be the company’s unofficial spokesperson.

That would be the corporation that you claim to criticize, but whose recognition is the pinnacle of your "I love Amway/I hate Amway" career. ---- yawn.

I wouldn’t expect you to be able to respond to that one, either.

Appears that they're just using you to get rid of the kingpins that expose the tools. Once a pawn, always a pawn. ---- As long as the lying cowardly "kingpins" leave, call me whatever you want.

Doesn’t do anything for the ‘massive tool profits’ though. Just means someone else gets them.

So you know the attendee list? Please do tell.

It said right in your email. Communications hacks, who are desperate to try to figure out how to get better PR on the internet.

I think a $7 Billion/year company can afford it. I think we're way past the google bobing run, lesson learned.

Heck – you deserve it, after the tens of thousands of dollars you’ve spent buying Amway products waiting to get rich. You paid for it yourself.

Now, answer the question that you are Texdodging:

I asked what special rules you had that active duty didn't. You didn't answer, again. Just like all the other ‘answers’ to my questions that you claim to have given.

Tex said...

Mandatory as in groups will be kicked out, or they won't get the QBI? There's a difference. When a kingpin makes all his bucks from tools, what does he care about the QBI? ---- Duh, there's a difference. It's the latter. But they've made such a big deal about the QBI the ones who don't get accredited will be in the hurts. The lying cowardly "kingpins" don't need it, but if all their people quit, they won't be "kingpins" any longer.

Besides – what has that done for the level of ‘tool profit’? You don’t know. You can only guess. Typical. ---- Nothing, that's why I said "not enough" in the first place.

Quixtar University: the ‘new modules’ are a fine advertisement. You take all the business courses yet? ---- No, but I've done a lot of them.

First Circle is going to take care of itself? That's a heck of good plan. Looks like they dropped that one. ---- I didn't say that. I said if they do other things, the goals of the First Circle will take care of themselves.

XS syrup is cheaper, Big seller that? Cheaper than what? Buying XS? ---- Or any other energy drink.

Simply Nutrilite is cheaper Cheaper than what? It’s a new line, isn’t it? ---- Cheaper than similar previous Nutrilite products, and therefore more competitive with other brands.

new Artistry is cheaper. Cheaper than what? ---- Same as the Nutilite response.

What changes? Is the organization formally known as DTI coming to the USA? ---- DBERR and FTC talk, and I'm ensuring they keep talking.

Oh, I thought is was because they ‘broke the rules.’ Or, you’re just making things up. ---- It was both.

That ‘India Recommendations’ letter was really important. You don’t even know if any of those recommendations were enacted. ---- And you don't know whether they weren't enacted. You ignored the changes in the UK as well.

People go without tools for months? ---- Yep. Not me, of course. I've got plenty.

Suit yourself. I’m not the one claiming to be the company’s unofficial spokesperson. ---- Neither am I.

I wouldn’t expect you to be able to respond to that one, either. ---- Yawn.

Doesn’t do anything for the ‘massive tool profits’ though. Just means someone else gets them. ---- Really? Who gets the Quixtar University profits?

It said right in your email. Communications hacks, who are desperate to try to figure out how to get better PR on the internet. ---- That's part of the attendees. How do you know those are the ONLY attendees?

Heck – you deserve it, after the tens of thousands of dollars you’ve spent buying Amway products waiting to get rich. You paid for it yourself. ---- Yawn.

Now, answer the question that you are Texdodging: I asked what special rules you had that active duty didn't. You didn't answer, again. Just like all the other ‘answers’ to my questions that you claim to have given. ---- I already answered it. Go read it again.

Porkchopjim said...

Duh, there's a difference. Took me to point it out. You couldn’t.

Accreditation for the tools scam: Nothing, that's why I said "not enough" in the first place.

Didn’t stop you from talking about how it’s now ‘mandatory.’ You knee-jerk defended the company that you hate but live to get ‘credibility’ from.

No, but I've done a lot of them. Yeah, that’s a heavy course load. I now know you haven’t even looked at them.

First Circle: - I didn't say that. I said if they do other things, the goals of the First Circle will take care of themselves. Why are you making excuses for an obviously abandoned program?

XS syrup: Cheaper than what? Buying XS? ---- Or any other energy drink.

Which is a good thing for you people who are buying products to get rich…cause I know you’re not retailing that stuff….so it doesn’t matter if it’s cheaper or not.

Cheaper than similar previous Nutrilite products, and therefore more competitive with other brands. Not if it’s lower quality.

DBERR and FTC talk, and I'm ensuring they keep talking.

I suspect that your kook letter to the FTC does not qualify you to even have an opinion on that matter, never mind an informed one.

It was both. Ah, of course. It depends on what you’re making up at the time. They not only got kicked out, they left on their own because of the name change.

And you don't know whether they weren't enacted. You ignored the changes in the UK as well.

For the first part, you shouldn’t say that I’m ignoring the changes when you don’t know if there are any changes or not (TexFacts!).

Suit yourself. I’m not the one claiming to be the company’s unofficial spokesperson. ---- Neither am I.

Yes you are: here’s what you said - They are "using" me to say things on their blog they would like to say, but obviously can't.

Are finally admitting that you’re a kook?

Doesn’t do anything for the ‘massive tool profits’ though. Just means someone else gets them. ---- Really? Who gets the Quixtar University profits? Quixtar.

That's part of the attendees. How do you know those are the ONLY attendees?

How do you know they aren’t?

I asked what special rules you had that active duty didn't. I already answered it. Go read it again.

Nope. Here’s all you said: Are you familiar with traveling Europe AFTER leaving the military and the travel restrictions? … I simply didn't want to go to the trouble of traveling in these areas, and there was already plenty of things to see without going there and the extra trouble it would have taken.

So, what extra trouble would you have had that active duty military wouldn’t?

David Robison said...

Pjc...you allude to the First Circle program being abandoned...Have you read something I haven't?

Tex said...

Duh, there's a difference. Took me to point it out. You couldn’t. ---- I thought it was too obvious. I guess I had a mental lapse and forgot I was talking to a third grader, if that.

Didn’t stop you from talking about how it’s now ‘mandatory.’ You knee-jerk defended the company that you hate but live to get ‘credibility’ from. ---- I said it was mandatory because it is mandatory. I know that's complex for you, just read it over and over, you'll eventually get it. I didn't defend the company, and don't need the company for credibility. My credibility comes from correct analysis of facts.

Yeah, that’s a heavy course load. I now know you haven’t even looked at them. ---- You wouldn't know, would you?

Why are you making excuses for an obviously abandoned program? ---- I'm not, I never liked First Circle without getting rid of the tool scam first.

Which is a good thing for you people who are buying products to get rich…cause I know you’re not retailing that stuff….so it doesn’t matter if it’s cheaper or not. ---- How do you know if "us people" are retailing? The same as you know how far I've gone in the QU courses. In other words, you have no concept.

Cheaper than similar previous Nutrilite products, and therefore more competitive with other brands. Not if it’s lower quality. ---- Like you're a good judge of quality. That's funny!

I suspect that your kook letter to the FTC does not qualify you to even have an opinion on that matter, never mind an informed one. ---- You know the same about this as the QU and retailing issues. Nothing.

Ah, of course. It depends on what you’re making up at the time. They not only got kicked out, they left on their own because of the name change. ---- There is rarely a single reason for anything, I don't have to make up anything, the facts about the objections to the name change are all over the internet.

And you don't know whether they weren't enacted. You ignored the changes in the UK as well. ----

For the first part, you shouldn’t say that I’m ignoring the changes when you don’t know if there are any changes or not (TexFacts!). ---- The point was you don't know whether the changes were enacted in India, and you didn't mention the UK changes, which are VERY real. Also, my original point (prior to you getting it off track) was I would like to see the changes PROPOSED in the letter ENACTED in the U.S. Did I state it clear enough this time?

Yes you are: here’s what you said - They are "using" me to say things on their blog they would like to say, but obviously can't. ---- Having a similar opinion is NOT being a spokesman, any more than voting for a political candidate is being a spokesman for the candidate. Are finally admitting that you’re a kook?

Quixtar. ---- Really? How much of the tuition covers overhead, and how much is profit, in your estimation?

How do you know they aren’t? ---- Because I've traded other e-mails with Alticor you haven't seen.

Nope. Here’s all you said: Are you familiar with traveling Europe AFTER leaving the military and the travel restrictions? … I simply didn't want to go to the trouble of traveling in these areas, and there was already plenty of things to see without going there and the extra trouble it would have taken.

So, what extra trouble would you have had that active duty military wouldn’t? ---- Yawn.

Porkchopjim said...

David,

First Circle: no, I haven't read anything. But, where is it? What happened to it? Was all the talk for quite the while. Poof. Vanish. PR garbage. All talk, no walk.

Tex, who is in high-level hour-by-hour contact with the highest echelons of Amway doesn't even know what's going on with it.

Porkchopjim said...

I thought it was too obvious. I guess I had a mental lapse and forgot I was talking to a third grader, if that.

No, you just made something up about it being ‘mandatory’ when that wasn’t the case at all.

I said it was mandatory because it is mandatory.

No, it’s mandatory if you want the QBI. You can still tool along being an IBO, and an AMO, if you don’t. Apparently, it’s too complex for you. No, obviously it’s too complex.

I didn't defend the company, and don't need the company for credibility.

You’re always defending the company and making a fool of yourself. And, apparently, you DO need the company for credibility, as you said: If I'm such a fool, why do I have the attention of the corporate lawyers and executives? Why am I being invited to the Communication Conference in the Czech Republic next month?

Now this gem:

My credibility comes from correct analysis of facts.

Which is why your credibility is what it is.

Quixtar U Business Courses: I now know you haven’t even looked at them. ---- You wouldn't know, would you?

I sure do – seeing as you claimed ”…No, but I've done a lot of them.

There’s only 5 of the basic business courses. What’s a ‘lot’ of those? BONUS: it takes an entire 2:43 to complete the whole thing.

If you didn’t lie so poorly, you wouldn’t look like such an idiot.

How do you know if "us people" are retailing?

Not XS Syrup you’re not – which was the product we’re talking about that you say is so much cheaper.

The same as you know how far I've gone in the QU courses. In other words, you have no concept.

You haven’t taken a single QU course, never mind a ‘lot’ of them in the business section. If you had, you wouldn’t have said those stupid things. Quit pretending that you know things other people don’t. You’ve shown more often that you know very little.

Like you're a good judge of quality. That's funny!

Hey, I’m not the one who spent $2,000 on useless Kingpin training from eBay.

“I suspect that your kook letter to the FTC does not qualify you to even have an opinion on that matter, never mind an informed one.” ---- You know the same about this as the QU and retailing issues. Nothing.

Suspicion confirmed in spades by your own lies above!

I don't have to make up anything,

Then why keep doing it?

The point was you don't know whether the changes were enacted in India,

No, that was my point. Steal something else. You’re the one who posted the memo and didn’t even bother to read it.

and you didn't mention the UK changes, which are VERY real.

What changes? Show your knowledge.

Also, my original point (prior to you getting it off track) was I would like to see the changes PROPOSED in the letter ENACTED in the U.S. Did I state it clear enough this time?

Yes – but it took how long to get you to say what you MEANT to say in the first place? Weeks?

Now – WHAT CHANGES? You want the BSMs that Amway makes which the Kingpins get a cut of to remain the same price after the kingpins have asked for a price increase just like India? That doesn’t even APPLY here.

They are "using" me to say things on their blog they would like to say, but obviously can't. ---- Having a similar opinion is NOT being a spokesman, any more than voting for a political candidate is being a spokesman for the candidate.

Large assumption that Amway thinks the same way you do. Bad assumption. They actually make a profit in their business. Once again, you’re claiming something that isn’t supported.

How much of the tuition covers overhead, and how much is profit, in your estimation?
No tuition. The apparent goal is to get IBOs to sell products, so they make a profit, and stick around to sell more products and get other to join, making Amway more money.

Which, if a Kingpin’s training program actually worked, would operate the same way and STILL make the kingpin money if he didn’t charge his downline a DIME for them.

Because I've traded other e-mails with Alticor you haven't seen.

Why am I thinking they haven’t seen them, either?

I simply didn't want to go to the trouble of traveling in these areas, and there was already plenty of things to see without going there and the extra trouble it would have taken.

Again: maybe it’s too hard of a question for you? It seems simple enough to me. “What extra trouble would you have had that active duty military wouldn’t?”

Tex said...

I haven't even asked about First Circle. I gave my input it is a waste of time until the tool scam goes away. Perhaps A/Q agreed.

Tex said...

No, you just made something up about it being ‘mandatory’ when that wasn’t the case at all. ---- It's mandatory, IF you want QBI money.

No, it’s mandatory if you want the QBI. You can still tool along being an IBO, and an AMO, if you don’t. Apparently, it’s too complex for you. No, obviously it’s too complex. ---- yawn.

You’re always defending the company and making a fool of yourself. And, apparently, you DO need the company for credibility, as you said: If I'm such a fool, why do I have the attention of the corporate lawyers and executives? Why am I being invited to the Communication Conference in the Czech Republic next month? ---- I don't always defend the company, and that is well documented. The reason I'm being invited to the conference is because I have credibility.

Which is why your credibility is what it is. ---- That's right, that is why I'm going to the international conference.

There’s only 5 of the basic business courses. What’s a ‘lot’ of those? BONUS: it takes an entire 2:43 to complete the whole thing. ---- I haven't looked at some of the new product related modules. There are 6 different lines of products covered. If you didn’t lie so poorly, you wouldn’t look like such an idiot.

Not XS Syrup you’re not – which was the product we’re talking about that you say is so much cheaper. ---- How would you know?

You haven’t taken a single QU course, never mind a ‘lot’ of them in the business section. If you had, you wouldn’t have said those stupid things. Quit pretending that you know things other people don’t. You’ve shown more often that you know very little. ---- Liar.

Hey, I’m not the one who spent $2,000 on useless Kingpin training from eBay. ---- I never claimed it was useless. Suspicion confirmed in spades by your own lies above!

Then why keep doing it? ---- yawn.

No, that was my point. Steal something else. You’re the one who posted the memo and didn’t even bother to read it. ---- My point with the letter was I would like similar concepts to be implemented in the U.S., regardless of the status of the India implementation.

What changes? Show your knowledge. ---- Price reductions. No sponsoring. No "kingpin" system scams. Terminated "kingpins." Corporate training. Free signups (when sponsoring resumes).

Yes – but it took how long to get you to say what you MEANT to say in the first place? Weeks? ---- I clarified the point immediately after you asked.

Now – WHAT CHANGES? You want the BSMs that Amway makes which the Kingpins get a cut of to remain the same price after the kingpins have asked for a price increase just like India? That doesn’t even APPLY here. ---- The concept is lower tool prices, the implementation details will be different in different situations.

Large assumption that Amway thinks the same way you do. Bad assumption. They actually make a profit in their business. Once again, you’re claiming something that isn’t supported. ---- When I agree on their positions, it is pretty clear their positions are similar to mine.

No tuition. The apparent goal is to get IBOs to sell products, so they make a profit, and stick around to sell more products and get other to join, making Amway more money. ---- You better jump on that scam as well, pcj. Imagine, a company providing training to it's representatives so it can increase volume. Do you realize we also make more money when this happens?

Which, if a Kingpin’s training program actually worked, would operate the same way and STILL make the kingpin money if he didn’t charge his downline a DIME for them. ---- The problem with the LCK's is they aren't interested in the dimes they make with product volume, they want the dollars they make from the tool scam.

Why am I thinking they haven’t seen them, either? ---- Because you generally think wrong.

Again: maybe it’s too hard of a question for you? It seems simple enough to me. “What extra trouble would you have had that active duty military wouldn’t?” ---- I simply didn't want to go to the trouble of traveling in these areas, and there was already plenty of things to see without going there and the extra trouble it would have taken.

Porkchopjim said...

I gave my input it is a waste of time

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!

You still haven't answered the question. None of them. Too late now.

Tex said...

Here's the entire thought, rather than taking a segment of a sentence out of context:

I haven't even asked about First Circle. I gave my input it is a waste of time until the tool scam goes away. Perhaps A/Q agreed.

Nice try, dork.

Porkchopjim said...

I gave my input it is a waste of time until the tool scam goes away.

Shock to all, Tex speaks the truth.

Tex said...

I spoke the truth in the original post, you're the one who parsed it.

Joecool said...

PCJ, it's time to stay off tex's blog. Just let him play with hinself here on "his" blog.

Tex said...

jc,

Good point, this is an adult blog.

David Steedson said...

Then why don't you act like anadult, tex?

Tex said...

Because I'm trying to communicate with children. Like YOU, David.

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