Tuesday, February 5, 2008

Tex's Second Post


If we were discussing baseball, the important topics would be the basics of baseball. Defense, hitting, pitching, and running.

If we were discussing the construction industry, we would talk about materials, architecture, building codes, etc.

But we are talking business. Business is about making money, the source of profits, overhead, pricing, etc.

THE biggest issue with Quixtar IS the lying cowardly "kingpins", and how they have for decades ripped off millions of Distributors/IBO's for hundreds of millions to
10's of billions of dollars by using the A/Q business as a bait-and-switch operation. The LCK's make MUCH more from tools than A/Q, and it causes net losses for most other IBO's. Are there other issues? Of course, product pricing is one of them, but a distant second compared to the tool scam.

I've challenged others to name an issue/problem with A/Q, and chances are very good I can connect a direct or indirect influence from the tool scam.

Most bloggers just want to puke all over their experiences, opinions, etc. I'm here to cause positive change to happen, so it's no mystery to me why I have been "banned" from many blogs. Most of them are mere "soap operas", repeating the same tired stories over and over again. Instead, why NOT brainstorm on ideas on how to bring honesty and decency to this business? If you wanted, you could be a part of that effort, as your experience as a former IBO could be used to help others, rather than merely brapping all your "horror stories" all over the internet

I've tried to be "grown up" and "civil" for a very long time on qblog, and all I got in return was insults, namecalling, etc., until it got to the point that it was very apparent most of the other bloggers had no interest in discussing, just cussing. The only way I found was successful was to push back with similar posturing, while still making my points. I asked openly on several blogs for others to help me clamp down on the nasty talk and criticize those who conducted themselves in this matter. Zero takers. So the beat goes on....

In fact, Dave is the FIRST blog owner who has decided he would like meaningful disucssions of making things better, and that is VERY refreshing. But why should we need HIM to be "mommy and daddy", why not have a CULTURE on this blog that frowns on childish behavior? I'm game, are YOU?


rocket said...

Good Post.

Tex, I do believe you are right about the LCK. I agree, concur, accord, concede, acknowledge and acquiesce.

Thank you for pointing out that the prices are also an issue.

Here's where I'm coming from:

I don't believe that Amway/Alticor/Quixtar will truly implement any kind of meaningful change unless forced to, perhaps in the UK. I further have sincere, well meaning doubts that the corporation will address this and the pricing issue any time soon without huge outside influence.

Yes, I know, there's changes afoot. I will believe it when and if I see it.

Here's the thing that I have a hard time accepting, and Tex, maybe you can answer this:

How can you put any faith in a company that has allowed the LCK to absolutely flourish with the deception?

How can you trust a company that thinks that is OK?

How can you trust a company that has perpetuated this crap? They could've stopped it, but they chose the money over their ethics.

Finally, why does Amway deserve any kind of credit for dealing with this? They had to. Their backs were against the wall, and I don't think it's unrealistic to say that if they could still be doing it they would be.

I just really don't understand how you can trust them Tex. Their well meaning recent rhetoric of late aside, why would you trust them?

I wouldn't, and never, ever will. Too much hurt has happened to people that they were damn well fully aware of, and did nothing.

I believe that they are as rotten as the LCK, because they were the only ones who knew what was going on, and allowed it.

And it hurt more people than it helped.

Anonymous said...

Where did I mention trusting A/Q?

I've complained about their behavior publicly on blogs and other forums, and in private with them, on a number of levels.

Not fixing a problem they have known about for almost 3 decades does not earn MY trust.

The "outside influence" can be the IBO's, we don't have to wait and hope the FTC will step in. It is uniquely AMERICAN to take care of "rascals" and not wait around for the government to take action. All it takes is a few of us with the backbone and guts to stand up to the LCK's and rally other IBO's to the truth of the financial abuse the LCK's have inflicted. If some former IBO's are willing to help other IBO's not be abused as they were, and join the cause, all the better.

We can start with phone calls and e-mails to Quixtar to stop the tool scam, talk and write letters to your local regulators and politicians.

Hammer the LCK's on this and other blogs, including the corporate blogs. Demand the truth, honesty, and transparency with respect to the tool profits. The LCK statue is already leaning, keep pushing it over until it slams into the ground, never to rise again.

Stay focused, stay on task, it should, can and WILL happen.

Ty Tribble said...

This is a great idea. I tried to get Tex to blog in May of 2006...


His site is still open and ready for him on my network.

Anonymous said...

The pricing issue is the major issue. If the pricing was competitive or at least less.

The hours it takes to work the business is more than a parttime job..

The "tools" aka tapes, books and functions are there to keep folks in the business. To keep them motivated..

This is what the "kingpins" are selling..Where they messed up was not telling folks that was their business..but cloaked in the Amway business.

Where Amway Corp messed up was to allow them to carry on the deceit..hey it sold products..not all retail but sold products nonetheless.

If Amway is to be successful, they have to compete with price and when those repesenting their products are decitful, they need to focus on that.

Anonymous said...


I'm not interested in your "network". I find your anti-A/Q stance extreme and dishonest, your open promotion of your other businesses predatory, and your practice to turn tail and run rather than standing up and demanding change unsavory. I said I'm not interested in 2006, and I say I'm still not interested in 2008. No thanks.

Anonymous said...


The price and resulting profit from the tools is the #1 problem. Product pricing is a distant #2 issue. The upline makes MUCH more from tools than products AND keep this fact hidden. Therefore, by definition this is a bigger issue than the product prices.

There are many core products that are competitively priced. There are literally millions of partner store products that are competitively priced (I know, they have less PV/BV, let's not go there).

The bottom line is that each individual IBO doesn't have to do much retail (even assuming selling at IBO cost, which makes the PV/BV the only profit) to recover any cost difference in paying more for some of the products.

If a product is too expensive, don't buy it. If enough IBO's do this, A/Q will then have to either lower the price or drop the product, problem solved.

Just keep in mind some folks, IBO's and customers, will value the convenience and/or quality as much or more than price, so don't focus exclusively on price alone.

However, I agree you can only ride the quality and convenience horses for so long before they become weak support for high prices.

Anonymous said...

Here's an interesting story:


My comment that was submitted: If you were only this concerned about the tool scam....

Anonymous said...

I don't know if the previous message will be posted, but I should note Nick posted my Birthday song input on his blog recently, and I'm pleasantly surprised by this. See http://trueibostories.opportunityzone.com/2008/01/31/Ruminations-on-birthday-songs-with-digressions-hither-and-yon-and-a-quiz.aspx#comments, the February 2 post.

Anonymous said...

Interesting post on the IBOAI blog:

"Rumor Re Confidential Competitive Analysis
There's a rumor out there that in April of 2000, the IBOAI conducted a “Confidential Competitive Analysis” of Quixtar products. FALSE.

There is no record of any such analysis in minutes of Board and Committee meetings. There were, at a couple of different points in time, INFORMAL comparisons of Quixtar products with other commercial products made by a handful of IBO leaders and members of their downline. One such comparison helped Board representatives, on behalf of all IBOS, negotiate favorable pricing for energy bars with Quixtar."

I submitted the following comment, but it may not get posted, as I have been "banned" from that blog.

A/Q has said on previous occasions:

1. They "own" pricing, and
2. If IBO's got involved with pricing decisions, they could be weakening their position as independent contractors and considered employees.

If you're going to do this, why confine it to one product? There are quite a few more products that could be looked at for price competitiveness.

Anonymous said...

tex said: If IBO's got involved with pricing decisions, they could be weakening their position as independent contractors and considered employees.

Joe says: Haha, yeah, IBOs making their own pricing decisions would actually make them more independent. LOL.

Anonymous said...


Haha, you have it backwards. I was speaking of determining the A/Q pricing, which would include IBO price, retail price, and PV/BV.

Independence doesn't mean zero guidance, zero rules. Many of you simpletons makes getting rid of the word "independent" a decent idea, because you twist it out of proportion. ABO (Affiliated Business Owner) would work for me.

Anonymous said...

tex, what I meant was the corporation should lower their prices and then let the IBOs determine the retail price. That would give them some flexibility and independence.

Anonymous said...


Lowering the Quixtar prices would probably result in less PV/BV, and wouldn't do much to fix the tool scam and the associated lack of profit for IBO's not profiting from the tool scam. In other words, you're addressing a secondary problem, not the primary problem. Kind of like having a broken arm and the doctor being concerned about a hang nail.

Anonymous said...

Are you familiar with I-Commerce Partners...a free, more modern day business support system. Fixes the #1 problem with the business.

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