Monday, March 10, 2008

9 STEPS OF TRUTH

IT IS TEX'S GOAL TO HAVE POSITION PAPERS WHEREBY THE CASUAL READER CAN QUICKLY FIND HIS MESSAGES IN A PERMANENT FORM WITHOUT READING COUNTLESS BLOG ENTRIES AND COMMENTS.

THIS ENTRY; POSITION PAPER #1: WILL HAVE A PERMANENT LINK IN THE SIDEBAR.

FROM TEX:

Here is a summary of my position:

1. Rich Devos stating publicly, in the 1983 "Directly Speaking" tapes (go to http://www.amquix.info/amway_directly_speaking.html to listen to and/or read Rich's position), for the "kingpins" to clean up their acts, then volume goes down considerably and Amway backs down. Later in 1983, Rich had his first heart attack, so it is assumed this was part of the reason this campaign to fix the problem stopped, as there was a loss of leadership regarding this issue. Rich had a "20% guideline" in mind, so it is reasonable the profits were significantly more than this, for him to get so excited over the issue. He stated 5 years later, in 1988, under sworn testimony (according to amquix, here is a link to the testimony, part way down this page: http://www.amquix.info/dateline/dateline.html ) the tool scam had not been cleaned up. No statements of cleaning up the scam have ever been made by the "kingpins" or A/Q. Further proof is the tool prices have NOT come down.

2. Several former Emeralds and above saying most of the profit comes from tools. These can be found all over the qblog and amquix sites.

3. Some current Diamonds and above have disclosed their details, which show most of profit is from tools. These are also all over the amquix and qblog sites.

4. Tool prices across various systems are similar, so it is reasonable to conclude, unless there are dramatic production costs, the profits are similar.

5. The "kingpins" sue/threaten to sue those who are inaccurate about how they achieved pin levels (Deb, with the Jody Victor Crown qualification episode) and the details of who was/was not painted over in a painting (amquix, with Jody again), and the details of the SA-4400 (amquix, with Billy Florence). However, when it comes to this issue, complete silence. The source of profit, something basic to any business, is met with silence. There are a few exceptions, such as BWW, but their tool prices are similar to the silent ones, so the exceptions indict the rest.

6. Numerous lawsuits/getting kicked out, over tool profits, and who knows how many others went to arbitration, and were never seen by anyone? Examples are Setzer, Anderson, the Joe Morrison group, the TIF group, Stewart, and Hart. You can read about these on the amquix site, or google for one of the above words and "Amway lawsuit".

7. All of the above cases started out as lawsuits between "kingpins" or "kingpins" and A/Q in fights over tool profits. Why would anyone in their right mind sue, if the small business profit was tools and the big business profit was A/Q income? This makes no sense, especially in an atmosphere where the upline is so strongly edified. It is relatively easy to build the business a little bigger to make a little more money, if this is what the tool profits represented. Therefore the big profits must be tools, and the relatively small income from A/Q.

8. Beth Dornan (see Links to left, and find staff blogs and Beth Dornan's name, or go to http://quixtar.blogharbor.com, and look for Friday, October 13th 2006 entry)
EDITOR'S NOTE: NEW LINK IS INSIDE QUIXTAR.

has now stated she doesn't know how much money is made via tools by the "kingpins". This contradicts an earlier post on the same blog (Friday, September 1, 2006) by her where she claims the rumors of how much is made on tools has been exaggerated, which would imply she knows how much is made via A/Q AND how much on tools. By default, she has retracted her earlier statement. In other words, the official Quixtar comment on tools income is "no comment", which is quite different than item 1, above. Looks like we have now come "full circle", although not quite the circles we draw in the A/Q marketing plan.

9. Wake up! And tell others to do the same. This is the 9 step pattern of the truth behind the A/Q business model.

67 comments:

Tex said...

Note the above was written prior to the TEAM fiasco. TEAM merely illustrates and reinforces the above ideas being spot-on.

I would prefer the above post stay as the "top spot" on the blog, rather than being moved over to the side, if possible.

Joecool said...

I believe it is also significant to note that the "kingpins" once told their downline that nobody made money from tools.

After the scam was excposed, the issue was swpet under thr rug and IBOs now claim that the diamonds talk about sharing tools income at the platinum level.

But noone to my knowledge actually has detailed information about qualifications and the payouts.

It's like how quixtar now pays QBI bonuses by discretion.

Tex said...

That is significant, it further demonstrates the liar part of the lying cowardly "kingpin" name.

Veritas said...

David,

Talked with Tex by phone yesterday. Would you please put a link to my new weblog in your Tex's Quixtar Blog link list on the left sidebar? Here is the URL link to my blog:

http://speakingofamway.com/blog/

Thanks,

Veritas

Tex said...

I second that motion.

Veritas/Chuck has already posted two very good threads on his site.

David Robison said...

Tex and Veritas,

Link has been added.

Dave

David Robison said...

Tex, as you are aware, a blog's template is not set up for a "top spot" format. The blog template is chronological, not a static website; which is why this entry and other "position entries" will be LINKED in the side bar and very accessible to the new reader. I could also add a sidebar note explaining these "postion" entries importance.

Tex said...

Thanks for adding the link.

I was not aware of the capabilities and limitations of blog formatting. However, if you can make the words in the sidebar as large as possible, this should help draw attention to the information. Perhaps you can even have the picture of Tex direct visitors to the sidebar.

Anonymous said...

Orrin should take his own advice:

http://www.the-team.biz/flvtest/orrin.html

Mike said...

HEY TEX...PUT SOMETHING NEW ON YOUR BLOG.


TELL US ABOUT THE "MEETING"

Anna28 said...

I second that motion Tex. How was the meeting?

Tex said...

It was great. I commented on the meeting on the below blog:

http://speakingofamway.com/blog/

Joecool said...

Did insider buy you a drink?

Joecool said...

Wow, I read some of the commentary and insider is the same in person. He just cannot be wrong and has to act like he knows it all.

No wonder he is a self proclaimed expert.

Anonymous said...

From IBO Rebellion:

Luchdor Wrote:

now we know what tex looks like!!!!

i can sleep better knowing he is not just a liar but a ugly liar.

lol

March 25, 2008 11:58 PM

Tex said...

jc,

No, ibofb did not buy me a drink. But he is always right, just ask him.

anon,

What did I lie about?

Joecool said...

Strangely enough, on Qblog, insider said he doesn't drink.

I don't really care whether he drinks or not but it seems like lying is a normal part of his shtick.

Yeah, that was a pretty good post you made over at the Amway blog.

But nobody has yet posted in any details, what was discussed in Prague.

tex said...

Here's some additional links to assist with your efforts to find more detailed information that supports the original post:

Okay, let's get down to business. First of all, my level of frustration which you probably heard on telephone is based on a three year saga that started when I was told by my former upline Diamond, Bruce Anderson, on his blog (which no longer is available, but the conversation can be found here (I am "Curious" on that blog, and I believe it is quite evident Bruce was NOT interested in sharing this information, even though he had already been terminated over a tool issue): http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/forum/viewtopic.php?p=40958&highlight=bruce+anderson#40958 Note there is a second person, bobztwin, who tried to step in and "protect" Bruce, but they both eventually admitted they made twice as much from tools than Quixtar. This is even more significant in that Bruce told me on the telephone he was qualified as a Diamond for only for the first year or two, and made much less Quixtar profit for most of the years he wore the Diamond pin (which is typical, making the tool money even more significant part of the problem). I have a "Profiles of Success" book that includes Bruce with his large home on the Florida intercoastal waterway, airplane, ocean going racing boat, large motorcoach (not a smaller motorhome), restored antique car, motorcycle, other cars, etc. He was admittedly not doing well financially prior to this business, as he flew a helicopter and Wendy, his wife, was a social worker.

Rich DeVos made a series of recordings in the '70's and '80's entitled "Directly Speaking." You can read one of the recordings and listen to the other here: http://www.amquix.info/amway_directly_speaking.html There are a number of issues that are discussed, most of which were fixed, so feel free to ignore them and pay attention to the tool profit portions. Anyone who is familiar with Rich DeVos' voice will immediately recognize this as his voice. The site these recordings came from is well known, and if it were in error, I am quite sure would have been shut down by now. If Rich was inaccurate with these statements, I am quite sure the company would have withdrawn these statements, and never has. Bruce Anderson told me on the telephone he was "ordered" to take and destroy any "Directly Speaking" tape he may come across.

There have been various lawsuits/threats of lawsuits over the years regarding relatively minor issues, such as whether Jody Victor's first wife was painted over in a portrait at Quixtar headquarters in Ada, MI:

http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2684&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=jody+victor&start=45 (I can no longer find the original information that was available on the IBOAI site, but the post on Thu May 04, 2006 3:24 am refers to the apology from Scott Larsen that was one of the conditions for Jody dropping the lawsuit)

or another one regarding the details of qualifications: http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2684&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=jody+victor&start=45 see post Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:52 am

As I and others have referred to the upline as "lying cowardly "kingpins" or "tool scammers" and similar other terms, thousands of times on the very same blog, as well as other blogs, why has the upline NOT, even once, denied our charges? This is one of the most talked about issues on a variety of popular blogs that prospects can easily find, so why haven't the upline simply opened their books and shown we are in error, let alone file a lawsuit over these matters?

Here's another statement from a former Diamond, Don Lorencz: http://web.archive.org/web/20051124194000/http://donjlorencz.texerta.com/

A group, commonly known for one of the Emeralds involved, Joe Morrison, tried to split from their upline tool system, and got put out of business by the upline threatening anyone who speaks for the Morrison group to be "uninvited" to any speaking opportunities with Yager. Why would all of these IBO's give up their entire business if the tools were not THE major source of profits? The lawsuits themselves indicate most of the profit for the higher pins is from tools. If incorrect, I believe the plaintiffs could be charged with a variety of legal violations: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/AUS/morrison.htm

Here's another one, from a former Direct Distributor (now known as Platinum): (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/AUS/hayden.htm

And another, from former Double Diamond Brig Hart: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/AUS/hart.htm

And another, from former Crown Ken Stewart: http://www.mlmsurvivor.com/stewart_v_gooch_comm.htm

Here's the youtube video from Andy Andrews, while he was still an active IBO: http://video.filestube.com/video,d7f07a3ad21d5f0903e9.html

One more, from former Diamond Bo Short (the transcript and video links from the 2004 Dateline show are below):

http://web.archive.org/web/20060207071939/msnbc.msn.com/id/4375477/
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-215989802739458876

I don't care about all the emotional, motivational mumbo jumbo, just the bare tool scam facts.

Here's Orrin Woodward, former Executive Diamond, on his very own blog recently: http://orrinwoodward.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2008/7/2/3773065.html#comments see post Thu 03 Jul 2008 12:51 AM EDT

Not to mention an obviously perplexed Michigan judge, who was incredulous (it's called perjury, but as this information wasn't the focus of the lawsuit and would be difficult to prove, they'll probably let it go) when Mr. Dickie, the CEO of Orrin's tool company couldn't even estimate how much Orrin and the other high level "leaders" made via the tools: http://www.freetheibo.com/pdfs/November-Judge-Sullivan-Opinion-Order-Quixtar-v-Woodward-not-contempt.pdf Here's the testimony, where Mr. Dickie denied having a clue how much was made via tools: http://freetheiboblog.typepad.com/quixtar/files/october_17_court_transcripts.pdf

The developments in the UK, where the judge ruled the "voluntary" action taken by Amway in May 2007 to shut down all tool sales should be lifted, but ONLY if there is ZERO tool profit. I am not in favor of zero tool profit, as I believe in free enterprise, capitalism, and the profit motive. However, these terms have NOTHING to do with the upline referring to their IBO's as "teammates", "business partners", and other similar terms, then lying (by omission) about making most of their money via the tools.

I can probably come up with others, but these are adequate to prove my position.

You offered very little willingness to discuss the issue of the appropriateness of these facts on the telephone, I hope you now see this is NOT hypothetical, it is very real. You also refused to discuss whether this behavior would be considered unethical if true, which I also consider VERY unproductive.

Very real people, on the order of millions over the past few decades, have been ripped off for probably 10's of billions of dollars.

I can probably come up with others, but these are adequate to prove my position.

NONE of these are mere "blog statements", these court cases are ALL from former IBO's who were cut out of their tool scam profits for one reason or another, and ended up kicked out of the business. If the tool profits were minor, doesn't it make sense they wouldn't make these statements and not worry about a little bit less money from the tools?

tex said...

Here's the offical response (and my response to them) to my above complaint to the DSA. Talk about worthless. I think they sat on their form letter for a week and a half to try to make it look like they actually cared.

Adolfo,

That was one of the longest responses I have ever read that said absolutely NOTHING. It took you almost 2 weeks to come up with THAT?

You asked for specifics. I gave them to you. Then you don't even address the specifics, and try to hide behind your "independent Code of Ethics Administrator." Did you even show the specifics to the Code of Ethics Administrator?

----- Original Message ----
From: Adolfo Franco
AFranco@dsa.org
To: xyz@yahoo.com
Cc: Amy M. Robinson arobinson@dsa.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 2:00:11 PM
Subject: Your Recent Email

Dear Tex:

I received the documents and web links that you forwarded to my colleague, Amy Robinson, Vice President of Communications, concerning the sale and use of tools and sales aides. As we discussed, any consumer or distributor concerns regarding direct selling industry practices are of great importance to the Direct Selling Association (DSA). It is through this type of feedback that we are often able to identify and address areas where industry practices and standards might be adjusted to better match marketplace and consumer demands and expectations.

As we also discussed, company specific issues regarding ethical matters are reviewed by our industry’s independent Code of Ethics Administrator and handled independently of the DSA and its member companies. It is my understanding from our telephone discussion that you have availed yourself of that option and have received a response from the Code Administrator regarding the matters you raised.

Having said that, the issues you have raised are among a variety of matters that DSA constantly evaluates in our ongoing efforts to ensure that the highest level of consumer protection and business ethics are practiced by our member companies vis à vis the public and our salesforce members. Our self-regulatory standards are continually reviewed and amended to reflect those efforts, and your information will undoubtedly inform that review and amendment process. When and if our Code or other standards are amended, they will be published on the DSA Web site.

I can assure you that the information you provided will be given careful consideration and review by DSA, and will be helpful in our ongoing efforts to set and ensure high standards of ethical conduct by all DSA members.

Thank you again for making us aware of your concerns.

Adolfo A. Franco
Vice President for Global Regulatory Affairs

Direct Selling Association

1667 K Street NW
Washington , DC 20006
202-416-6416

tex said...

Below is a series of e-mails back and forth with Mike McCormick, a highly paid (with YOUR tool scam money, by the way) lawyer for Don Wilson, Randy Haugen, and probably other current and former A/Q LCK's (lying cowardly "kingpins"). Mike posted a message on the Forbes story regarding Orrin Woodward that he wanted to communicate with me. Judge for yourself if he is an honest broker or a reincarnation of John Edwards, liar extraordinare. My vote is the latter.

Mike,

Looks like you made your decision to break several commitments.

This "conversation" is now over, the below e-mail thread now posted on:

1. My blog; http://texsquixtarblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/9-steps-of-truth.html
2. The QIAC blog; https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=2249216107319535551&postID=7121893757970460088 and
3. The Forbes story, where this "conversation" started; http://www.forbes.com/entrepreneurs/forbes/2008/0811/050.html

----- Original Message ----
From: Mike McCormick mmccormick@mhn-law.com
To: Tex
Sent: Saturday, August 9, 2008 10:39:58 AM
Subject: Re: Tex

Given my "thick skull," as you put it, a conversation with me would likely be of no use to someone of your dizzying intellect. I still hold myself open for a phone call from you if you are interested, simply because I said I would. Your insults do nothing to entice me to engage with you. I have no interest in initiating a call to someone who communicates as abrasively as you. I will still receive a call that you initiate assuming you have an interest in talking. othewise, you can pursue your agenda with someone with whom you can engage civilly. Mike McCormick

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

From: Tex
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 08:13:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: Mike McCormick mmccormick@mhn-law.com
Subject: Re: Tex

I have told you, on several occasions, the call will be to the neutral conference number.

Why you can't get that through your thick skull is beyond me.

It is quite unprofessional to not keep a commitment, but you took it even further, and went 0 for 3.

Except for potential future class action involvement in the Pokorny lawsuit, I am presently not party of any litigation known to me, and am not currently represented by a lawyer in any legal matter..

Frankly, I'm fed up with your John Edwards style "ethics", or lack thereof, including:

1. Not calling the conference number a single time after 3 opportunities that met your schedule request,

2. Not giving me the common courtesy of indicating which of the above 3 calling opportunities looked more or less favorable to you, which could have been provided shortly after my original e-mail with the 3 different times, or during the day of appointment,

3. Not proposing new times after being requested to provide them, and

4. Not being at all concerned about my time or insight, because it's all about you.

Just like Edwards, you think the world revolves around you, and you both have little concern for others. If you were so busy, you wouldn't suggest I call you at a random time, it makes much more sense to set up a time to call, as I did, 3 times.

Do they teach all these "ethics" at lawyer school?

----- Original Message ----
From: Mike McCormick mmccormick@mhn-law.com
To: Tex
Sent: Saturday, August 9, 2008 8:27:52 AM
Subject: RE: Tex

I have given you my phone number, both office and cell. If you are still interested in talking, call me. BTW, I am concerned that you may be a party to litigation in which I am involved. The other side is represented. It is against the rules of ethics for me to speak with the client of another lawyer without his express consent. If you call, expect that to be the first level of inquiry. I agree that since I did not make your identity a precondition of our communication, I should still allow the conversation to go forward. I am, after all, a man of my word. I am also very busy, thankfully, and have no interest in putting aside my other responsibilities for this. I will continue to make myself available to you should you want to call.

Mike McCormick
Office: 713-297-0700
Cell: Removed

From: Tex
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 11:10 PM
To: Mike McCormick
Subject: Re: Tex

0 for 3. No e-mails saying you weren't going to be able to make any of the appointments. Do you want to propose some other times and dates, or not?

----- Original Message ----
From: Tex
To: mmccormick@mhn-law.com
Sent: Thursday, August 7, 2008 9:45:13 AM
Subject: Re: Tex

Mike,

I don't care where you are or what you're doing, I just want to know if you were planning on calling in tomorrow night, or if I will be wasting my time again, calling in and waiting for you to call. You could have e-mailed me prior to the other calls, indicating you couldn't call in. It's all about you, isn't it? You don't care about my time, just yours.

If you can't call in, give me a couple of other times over the weekend or next week.

I think your tone smacks of extreme hubris, to suggest I am the only one who will benefit from the call. I hope both of us get something productive out of it, but your attitude suggests otherwise. YOU are the one who suggested the call, not me.

I have given you a conference number, and you should know the reasons why I don't call you directly, so don't keep asking me to call your number. You also have refused to answer questions via e-mail, so the only purpose the e-mail serves is to notify you of the conference call number, and the date/times to call. I also have valid reasons for not saying who I am, and that was not an initial condition of us talking.

As I said before, you are the one who identified yourself, I didn't ask, and I am under zero obligation to identify myself.

We're not even having a discourse, all I asked is whether I can expect you to keep your word to call into the number as you said you would, and I gave you 3 dates this week that met your schedule. You are 0 for 2, but there is a third date tomorrow and I am willing to talk over the weekend or next week. If someone should be getting tired of this "discourse", or lack thereof, it is me, not you.

You know how to reach me, through the conference call number at the appropriate time, or reschedule a time via e-mail.

Tex

----- Original Message ----
From: "mmccormick@mhn-law.com" mmccormick@mhn-law.com
To: Tex
Sent: Thursday, August 7, 2008 9:08:58 AM
Subject: Re: Tex

I am in depositions out of state. If my travel schedule permits, I will call. This call is not for my benefit but for yours. I know the truth and I am happy to share it with you if you are interested. Your tone suggests that you think you are doing me some kind of favor to allow me to talk to you. I have given you my cell, my email, and invited you to call. I have identified myself and made myself available and you won't evensay who you are. I am still willing to discuss matters with you but am growing tired of this discourse. If you are interested in talking, I will visit with you. You know how to reach me.

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

From: Tex
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 06:54:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: Mike McCormick mmccormick@mhn-law.com
Subject: Re: Tex

I'm not going to call you. Are you planning on calling the conference number tomorrow night, or not?

----- Original Message ----
From: Mike McCormick mmccormick@mhn-law.com
To: Tex
Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 11:22:44 PM
Subject: Re: Tex

I am just finishing work today. If you want to call me now, I am available.

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

From: Tex
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 21:07:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: Mike McCormick mmccormick@mhn-law.com
Subject: Re: Tex
I guess we'll talk Friday, as you didn't call yesterday or today.

----- Original Message ----
From: Tex
To: Mike McCormick mmccormick@mhn-law.com
Sent: Monday, August 4, 2008 3:59:59 PM
Subject: Re: Tex

Mike,

Here's the number to call. I'll be available Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday. I'll call at 10:00 pm MST and stay on the line for 5 minutes unless you inform me of another specific time to call.

I expect the call to be in both directions, I'm not looking to monologue you, nor am I looking for you to monologue me.

Your clients, and others like them, have devoted a large part of their lives to scamming people like me. I look forward to your explanation. I'm always open to a different point of view, as long as it is factual and not fantasy based.

Conference Dial-in Number: (616) 597-8000
Access Code: 975016#

----- Original Message ----
From: Mike McCormick mmccormick@mhn-law.com
To: Tex
Sent: Monday, August 4, 2008 1:02:33 PM
Subject: Re: Tex

I am in Utah all week but am available for a brief conversation after 10 MST. You apparently devote a large portion of your life to complaining about my clients. I know them well and know them to not be of the character you portray. It may be that you are the type that will never listen but only talk, attempting with every word spoken from someone with a different point of view to formulate your counter argument. I will be able to tell that fairly early on and then won't waiste any more of my time or yours. If, however, you are interested in considering a different point of view than your own, merely reply with your phone number where you can be reached after 10 MST and I will call one night this week, after I finish my work for the day. Mike

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

From: Tex
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 11:07:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: Mike McCormick mmccormick@mhn-law.com
Subject: Re: Tex

Mike,

I have various, valid reasons for not disclosing my identity. This isn't about me, or you for that matter. It is about "people" like your clients, Don and Randy, who are just a couple of examples of those who have been scamming hundreds of thousands of IBO's for decades. I personally have lost several tens of thousands of dollars, plus over a decade of my life to the LCK (lying cowardly "kingpin") thieves, and I am just one of many with this experience. Measure THAT against your other responsibilities. If you care more about billable hours than doing the right thing, so be it.

I never asked you for your identity, you provided it. I am under no obligation to comply with your demand for my identity.

You are the one who offered to talk, with no pre-conditions stated. I took you up on it, then you tried to apply your lawyerly tactics of delay and incremental discovery. As I said, this isn't a court of law, it is the court of public opinion and FACTS. The facts don't change depending on who is telling the story.

If you don't want to come down from your ivory tower, I will simply post this series of communications on my blog, so all can see your weak attempts of manipulation and intimidation.

You have one day to respond with proposed days and times to discuss the tool scam, or your first non-compliant message, whichever comes first. Otherwise, you can check here for this discussion to appear: http://texsquixtarblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/9-steps-of-truth.html You would be wise to read this link prior to responding.

Tex

----- Original Message ----
From: Mike McCormick mmccormick@mhn-law.com
To: Tex
Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 8:14:46 AM
Subject: RE: Tex

Any one unwilling to take ownership of their comments and identify themselves is unworthy of my time. I have kept your email identity private and have no intention of spreading your identity to others. I will not engage in communication with anyone who doesn’t have the backbone to say who they are however.

Mike McCormick
Office: 713-297-0700
Cell: Removed

From: Tex
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 10:48 PM
To: Mike McCormick
Subject: Re: Tex

Mike,

If you don't want to answer the questions prior to the call, neither do I. It seems only fair.

----- Original Message ----
From: Mike McCormick mmccormick@mhn-law.com
To: Tex
Sent: Saturday, August 2, 2008 10:02:25 PM
Subject: Re: Tex

For that matter, who are you? You know who I am. It seems only fair that I should know who you are.

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

From: Tex
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 19:53:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: Mike McCormick mmccormick@mhn-law.com
Subject: Re: Tex

Mike,

I just happened to check my spam folder and found your messages here.

If you want to talk, give me a couple of days/times, and I will set up a conference call for us to call into.

Tex

----- Original Message ----
From: Mike McCormick mmccormick@mhn-law.com
To: Tex
Sent: Saturday, August 2, 2008 7:36:56 AM
Subject: RE: Tex

First, Tex , I have been absolutely swamped since returning from Michigan . I did not get back to the office until Wednesday and was dealing with a whole host of backlogged issues after that. I finally looked at the Forbes article again yesterday and saw the postings had grown to 91, with about half being yours and the other half coming from people debating you about your contentions. I was counting on a simple two email discussion, not something I would have to wrap my life around. In retrospect, after all the points made to you by others to no avail, and considering the substantial risk that you could take want I have to say out of context and put it up on various websites, I am willing to talk to you over the phone on no more than two phone calls (again, I have to measure the time I can afford to spend on this kind of thing against my other responsibilities) and I invite your call. You have a number of misconceptions about the MLM/Amway/TEAM situation that I am happy to discuss with you. I can’t devote the time to it that you apparently can and I can’t run the risk of unwanted or unauthorized publication of what I say. By the way, the call will not be recorded from my end and I expect the same from you. If you cannot agree to that, then you should probably go back to your blogging, posting, emailing form of expression.

Mike McCormick
Office: 713-297-0700
Cell: Removed

From: Tex
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 7:01 AM
To: Mike McCormick
Subject: Re: Tex

Mike,

It's been almost a week. Was this typical lawyer blustering, and there's nothing behind your offer to talk?

Tex

----- Original Message ----
From: Tex
To: mmccormick@mhn-law.com
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 12:39:47 AM
Subject: Tex

Mike,

You can start by answering the questions I asked on the Forbes site.

By the way, I consider my e-mail address priveliged information, and it is NOT to be shared with anyone.

Regards,

Tex

tex said...

Has anyone heard of the new lawsuit filed in East Texas? Here's the link: http://dockets.justia.com/search?query=quixtar&search=Search&stateorcourt=&lawsuittype=&documentfilter=allcases&cases=mostrecent&min-day=1&min-month=1&min-year=2004&max-day=6&max-month=8&max-year=2008

tex said...

Here's the details of the lawsuit mentioned above:

http://www.amquix.info/quixtar_briscoe.html

Apparently, the lawsuit has been filed but not yet served. The lawyer wanted to get the case heard in Texas, versus Michigan. He also was involved in the Morrison lawsuit, which is out of arbitration and into the court system in Texas, and A/Q is based in Michigan.

tex said...

Here's my latest feedback from the UK:

Tracey,

Thanks for clarifying that (meeting costs must be paid for by the meeting leaders). What is the policy in the case an upline
travels a significant distance to visit a downline group? Does the upline have to pay for their own travel and lodging costs as well?

Regards,
Tex

Hi Tex,

Any travelling or costs associated with holding a meeting would have to be borne by the ABO himself. These costs cannot be covered by entrance fees for ABOs.

Kind regards,

Tracey Clark
Contract Administration and Compliance Co-Ordinator
Tel: 01908 629485

This should send shudders down the spine of every tool scamming LCK around the world. Amway is (finally) enforcing what Rich DeVos promoted a quarter century ago. Now we need similar rules in the U.S. I wouldn't even mind paying for the above costs, as long it was reasonable, and known. For instance, coach class and a regular room at a mid-rate hotel, not paying for their private jet and staying at the penthouse at a high priced hotel.

tex said...

Interesting story on ibofb's site, see link below. Coincidentally, this occurred in 1983, so the same year the Amway helicopter ditched in Lake Michigan, Amway "ditched" themselves into the tool scam. The biggest difference is they plucked the helicopter pilots out of the lake, but haven't got the U.S. IBO's out of the tool scam, a FULL quarter century later.

http://www.amwaytalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=155

Sheng Loong said...

Hi Tex,

Thanks for leaving a comment via my blog contact page.

First of all I respect your endeavor in setting up a blog to educate the people about Amway. Of course it does not mean I agree with what you told me or wrote in the blog posts.

I am not going to debate or argue with you here and I strongly believe in this business.

Thank you for informing me about it anyway.

Tex said...

Sheng,

You don't have to believe me, all I have posted are the facts from various independent, external sources. Disregard the facts at the peril of you and your group's financial position.

I believe in the Amway business as well, just not the tool scams run by the LCK's.

Levi said...

Tex does not have facts he just litters the internet with his junk in hopes that people will pity his desprete cries for attention. if you believe anything on the internet without firsthand eye witness then you are a fool like tex. Please oh please I hope you post this. and if anyone wants a real discussion on some topics go to therealpyramidscheme.blogspot.com

Tex said...

Tex does not have facts he just litters the internet with his junk in hopes that people will pity his desprete cries for attention. ---- There's first hand facts all over this site. Read and watch the videos of former LCK's describing most of their profit came from the tool scam. Watch the silence from the current LCK's regarding the tool scam. I'm not looking for attention, I am looking to draw attention to the tool scam. I'm also not "desprete" (sic) about this, but I am passionate.

if you believe anything on the internet without firsthand eye witness then you are a fool like tex. ---- Really? Would you like to invest with Bernie Madoff? Do you have to be a firsthand eye witness to believe he's a crook? How about if a known child molester came to your door and wanted to play with your young child? Would you have to watch him molest YOUR child before you told him to go away? Does Levi have a clue, or is he just an old pair of jeans?

Please oh please I hope you post this. and if anyone wants a real discussion on some topics go to therealpyramidscheme.blogspot.com ---- As I told you, EVERYTHING gets posted here, unlike your inferior blog, where you "screen and threaten" me with getting banned, as if I even cared.

Anonymous said...

Wow, Haven't been on a blog in 6 months but was bored and just decided to sniff around....and I see Tex is still up to the same rhetoric. Dude, it is time to get a life.

Tex said...

Anon,

Why don't you take off for 6 decades next time?

Tex said...

Be sure to check out the Duncan bankruptcy:

http://texsquixtarblog.blogspot.com/2009/03/duncan-bankruptcy-further-exposes-tool.html

Anonymous said...

Originally we got involved in the business because we just wanted to replace our incomes and be free. We wanted to have some time to go camping and do the normal things people do with their free time.

As we got going along a little further in the business, we really bought into the fact that this was a cause to help people. For many years that’s exactly how we felt. This was our cause. We were sold out to the people; we were sold out to creating a platform for them to succeed upon as they got started in their own business. Most of our leaders felt the same way. We’ve seen so many people’s lives change for the better.

We experienced success beyond what we could have imagined. We were really rolling. We were either the fastest growing group in America or one of them. We broke five Diamond legs. Many leaders in the group were breaking Emerald’s and Diamond’s. It had changed lives substantially. It was a true success story that was amazing for many people. Our numbers peaked in 1995; we were turning out almost 35,000 people at monthly seminars.

At about that same time, the negative on the Internet and the product prices started to be a problem. Most of the negative information on the Internet was focused, at that time, upon product pricing. It was hard to refute. Originally, when we first got in, the per-use aspect of the products made it okay, it wasn’t such a hard sale. But the prices just seemed to continue to drift upward.

We got hit with the Procter & Gamble lawsuit, and there was a lot of confusion in the organization and the groups. The negative online started becoming a bigger problem. The price of products became a problem, we slowly started going backwards.

In the mid to late nineties, I was privy to several conversations with the company wherein we told them they needed lower priced products and they needed to do something about the negative on the Internet. They always said they were "working on it," but they just didn’t ever do anything about it.

Around 1998/1999, most of us were very frustrated with the Amway business. We started to get to a point where we didn’t believe we were doing the right thing for the new people getting started. Overall the numbers were going down, which meant when people were getting in they had less chance of succeeding than we did when we got started. It is much more difficult when numbers are going down versus going up. Nobody seemed to have the answers on how to turn it around.

I am not sure exactly about all of the details of how Quixtar came into being, who did each little piece, but we decided we needed something that was not connected to Amway, and we needed something to align with the Internet. We came up with what we thought would be the perfect business. As we started into it, working with the company, we got one or two things out of a list of about ten that we thought would be necessary to really have a successful business.

NONE of us wanted to have a company associated with Amway in any way. We were told it was a sister company and was disconnected. They said it would be structured in a way so that we could say to people that it isn’t Amway and it would be true, that this new opportunity was not Amway in any way.

From the very beginning in 1982, one of the things that attracted us to the business was Rich DeVos saying on one of his tapes that they would never change the business even 1% without the Board approving it. We went along for a long time thinking the board would stand up and represent us and be our safety net if the people at the company ever tried to change the deal.

What we have seen happen, which most people are not aware of, is that every year the company is changing the rules. Very few people know what the changes are every year, but every year when they renew they agree to all of the new rules, now there are 95 pages of them! I would say that less than one tenth of one percent of the people knows about this.

Over the last five or six years, they have totally changed the business model to where we are no longer independent business owners, we are more like employees. They have actually stated recently in the Texas court that they own our downline. Not only have we figured out that we are no longer independent, but we also have figured out that the board has no power whatsoever over the company. The board has always been an advisory group but now the company has chosen not to have the board approve decisions they are making. They made the decision to change it to Amway and did not run it by the board until after the decision was made. Every person on the board was upset about this change. When the board published their thoughts the company got upset and said they would either not renew their contract or they would now start to renew it one month at a time. If the company will make a decision of this magnitude, what will they do next? We sold people on the idea that the board was a protection. I am very sorry, but that is definitely not true anymore. People need to know that since many people based their future on this fact alone. That was always what we believed would prevent something like this huge change from happening.

From 1995 when we started going backwards, up until June of 2006, I had gotten to the point over the last few years that I couldn’t represent the business. I couldn’t show the plan, because I didn’t believe it was the right to get people involved in something that I didn’t believe was the right thing for them to do. So I quit showing the plan a few years ago, and when we would go speak to our groups or other groups, we would totally focus on getting people to believe in themselves that they could do whatever they wanted to do in their lives. We did all we knew how to give people confidence in themselves. We tried to build their self-esteem, but we could not get ourselves to tell them to go build the business. It’s not a very good thing to live through to watch what happens when your best leaders cannot make progress. It’s worse to watch them go backwards and have to go back and get jobs after being free for a while. It’s terrible for them to tell their children that their dreams are not going to come true and all the things they talked about are not going to happen now. The whole thing started to get ugly. We watched many relationships get hurt between friends, leaders, and couples. Many times when we would go speak to other organizations the leaders would ask if we had any answers. The Diamonds would try to do their very best to help their groups but they were also hurting inside. We saw many Diamonds go above and beyond to help their people.

Then in the summer of 2006, through a series of events, after listening to the Brady’s speak at a function in June, I got the impression that they believed in what they were saying, and I knew they had had some growth, but didn’t know much about their organization. We didn’t know their techniques, methods, or philosophy. As Valorie and I sat and listened to Chris and Terri we were amazed that they knew so much about leadership. We finally figured out that they were a learning organization. We had never seen a team before that put so much emphasis on learning leadership. Then I hooked up with Orrin Woodward in August 2006, and we spent a day and a half together. Most of the conversation with Orrin was him asking how we were doing. At the end of the second day I was the one asking the questions because I was figuring out that Team was growing and had many people becoming successful. I started trying to get the information out of him. I asked him if it was possible for us to buy some of the Team tools. He said we could talk about it. I just couldn’t get it out of my mind that if we could get it to grow the impact it would have on the Emeralds; this would be a God-send for all my Emeralds who had had to go back and get jobs. We had over a hundred and some Emeralds, and most of them have had to go back and get jobs. I also got very excited about the possibility that a new person would have a great opportunity to become successful. We had several meetings with Orrin and the Team leaders and finally they decided that they would allow us to use their well thought out system. I knew after spending time with Team leaders, we wanted to be part of it. I had never seen anything like it before. The Team system was fair to everybody because there were no special deals. Orrin and Chris were on the same pay scale that all people were on even though they spent much of their time continuing to improve it. They didn’t take any extra money for doing it. So we partnered up with Team, and IMMEDIATELY we leveled off from going backwards, the organization as a whole started growing and moving forward, we hadn’t seen hope in people’s eyes like that for a long time. This was the most confidence and excitement we had seen in people for twelve or thirteen years. Most people could make progress because of the way the system was designed. So naturally when you can make progress you get very excited about making your dreams come true.

Valorie and I had dedicated our life to this thing as many of our leaders had. We had worked six or seven days a week for fifteen years. There were several years in a row where the longest period of time that Valorie and I were actually at our home was three days in a row. We were constantly on the road, we did meetings in every state in the U.S.; we put everything we had into this. We sacrificed time with our kids and put our entire life into this thing. And we were extremely blessed by many, many great leaders showing up in our organization. And many of them did the same thing that Valorie and I did. They were totally sold out to it. It became our life.

So finally, we get hooked up with the Team, with Orrin and Chris, and got things turned around. We started moving in a positive direction, and we just got things cooking when all of a sudden the company decides that they are going to have a total change in their business model. They are going to change their name back to Amway, they are going to put new requirements on us to retail even more overpriced products, they are going to give people who build width extra bonuses, that will hurt those who build depth, and I and many others reached the conclusion this model will not work for us. There are many things that I think are a problem with the new model. To start with nobody I have talked to so far wants to be in Amway. Especially after telling them they aren’t in Amway for seven years. It is very hard to understand why the names change when almost every builder in the field is against it.

Not for any amount of money am I going to lead a group of people down a road that I don’t think is the best thing for them to do. I have to believe when I show the plan to somebody that it is the best thing they should do for their own life or I can’t do it. I am not going to do that for money if it’s not the right thing to do for the new person. I could have laid back and done nothing but collected my checks and watch it die a slow death. I would have made the most money if I played it that way. The other choice is to do something else.

So eventually it comes to a head after the emergency Board meeting in July, and we decide that we have to leave, because we know for us the model isn’t going to work over the next 18-24 months. I don’t want to be in a position where I am standing up telling people they should do this when I don’t think they should. So we decided we would go have a negotiation meeting with the company, as they had told Orrin he could do, and see if they would give us a choice and let us go. Instead of having to set out six months, we were hoping they’d be a little lenient on us and let us go with a little shorter amount of time.

I told every one of them in that meeting on August 9th that I appreciated them, and I appreciated the relationship, and told them I just couldn’t put my heart in it. We were in the business for 25 years and we had developed great working relationships with most of the people that were in the meeting. I had a good relationship with most of them. They had been very good to me over the years. I wasn’t yelling or raising my voice. We had what I thought was a very good conversation. I was very sure that Rob and Jim were willing to talk about an amicable separation. Jim Payne and Rob Davidson both said that they understood. Jim Payne said, "I don’t think you can take everyone with you, but let’s talks about it and see what we can do." Rob Davidson said, "Hey, I understand. If you can’t put your heart in it and don’t want to do it, we understand. If I couldn’t put my heart into my job here, then I would be worthless here. So I understand."

I thought I was going into a meeting to negotiate us leaving in an amicable way where we could agree on both sides to make statements where neither side would be hurt. There was never a time during the meeting where we said or did anything out of line or unprofessional. What shocked me the most was that after 25 years of being loyal to this company, when they came back in, it’s almost like they had it preplanned, they knew what they were going to do, they just walked in and terminated Orrin and Chris because they said Orrin and Chris were not willing to fix things. At this point they already knew that all three of us wanted to leave the business so there was nothing to discuss on fixing things. They wouldn’t even discuss any of the points we had come up with about having an amicable separation.

The next thing I know, they are telling untruths about what went on in the meeting. What totally shocked me was they accused us of having an MLM put together, and that Orrin promised to solicit IBO’s in other groups, they said that Orrin was trash talking them, all things that weren’t true in any way. They made allegations with absolutely no proof whatsoever. I am shocked at how they have handled this. Calling or emailing people and giving them 24 hours to decide if they are going to be part of TEAM, which is a training system, or if they are going to choose Quixtar with no training system? This caught our team totally off guard. That doesn’t even make sense, first of all. Secondly, some of these are people who have been in the business for 25 years. They’ve been loyal. They know absolutely nothing about what is going on. Give them an ultimatum! Devastate their business! Affect their family’s income! They couldn’t have planned it worse than how they’ve handled this. How can their behavior ever be considered right? How does a company justify treating people that way?

Here’s the crazy thing. ALL they had to do was come back in that meeting and say, "Guys, we just don’t think we can bend the rules in any way; you’ve got to abide by the non-compete in the contract in full." Instead, they did it a different way. I think they have shown that they don’t care about the people at all.

This whole thing didn’t just happen one crazy day. The great people on the board have been working on many important issues for many years. It is sad that as the Wal-Mart effect took place where business’s had to reduce their prices to be competitive, that this company would not do that. The Families held on to their margins and would never let go. The MAC committee worked many hours tirelessly for years. The entire board worked on pricing for years. We got nothing. I reached a point where I couldn’t live with it anymore. If the only thing I wanted was money I could have just spun the whole story and spent the next 18-24 months trying to convince people that is was going to work and everything was going to be ok. That way I could have received my end of year bonus’s and $500,000 check for Founders Diamond in two years. Val and I would have done fine. I just could not do it. No matter how much money I could have made, I just couldn’t do it. Some people think we all of a sudden we just went crazy and lost our minds. No, I just got pushed over the edge of what is right and what is wrong and had to do what I thought was right.

There comes a time in a man or a woman’s life where you have to make the hard decisions. When you do, half of the people think you are crazy and the other half think you are right. You will need to make those decisions for yourself and your family when your time comes. It was a great ride for the first half of the trip and not so good over the last half. I do believe the future is bright. My one hope that I want to leave anybody that reads this is that I want you to know that inside of you are the seeds of greatness. God blessed you with special gifts that only you have. Learn what those gifts are. Val and I know that you can do anything in the world that you choose to do. You have to focus and always believe in yourself. Never beat yourself up for your past performance. Just keep on keeping on striving to make your dreams come true. We know you are going to do something great in your future. You can accomplish all you want and then some. Never give up on yourself. You know that it is better to go to bed tired knowing you give it your all than to go to bed lazy because you are striving for nothing. Keep on dreaming, it’s worth it. You are on your way to being the best. You will go beyond where you thought you could. We are proud of you for standing up against mediocrity and claiming yourself to be A DREAMER!! Yes, that is what you are and never ever forget it. Don’t let the fog take it away from you. You are the real deal my friend.

May God bless you and always be there for you,

Randy Haugen

Tex said...

Originally we got involved in the business because we just wanted to replace our incomes and be free. ---- Plus, you thought you would do it through the Amway business, not the tool scam.

We wanted to have some time to go camping and do the normal things people do with their free time. ---- The violins are playing....

As we got going along a little further in the business, we really bought into the fact that this was a cause to help people. ---- I don't when "a little further" was, but if it was after you knew about the tool scam, you just qualified to become an LCK.

For many years that’s exactly how we felt. ---- By that point, you were DEFINITELY an LCK.

This was our cause. ---- And "this" was the tool scam.

We were sold out to the people; we were sold out to creating a platform for them to succeed upon as they got started in their own business. ---- Sorry Charlie, you sold out to the tool scam.

Most of our leaders felt the same way. ---- Which makes them LCKs as well.

We’ve seen so many people’s lives change for the better. ---- And so many many many more change for the worse.

We experienced success beyond what we could have imagined. ---- That's because you weren't imagining the tool scam in the beginning.

We were really rolling. ---- Steam rolling over most peoples' finances would be FAR more accurate.

We were either the fastest growing group in America or one of them. ---- Too bad you're proud of that.

We broke five Diamond legs. ---- Not to mention breaking tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands, of peoples' finances.

Many leaders in the group were breaking Emerald’s and Diamond’s. ---- Again, this is nothing to be proud of when you are running a tool scam.

It had changed lives substantially. ---- Yes, see above.

It was a true success story that was amazing for many people. ---- No, it was a lie, because you and a handful of others ripped off many others to reach your "success."

Our numbers peaked in 1995; we were turning out almost 35,000 people at monthly seminars. ---- Thank God the financial carnage slowed down.

At about that same time, the negative on the Internet and the product prices started to be a problem. ---- Most people didn't have internet in 1995, and blogs with price information didn't start until the early 2000's. Nice try to rewrite history.

Most of the negative information on the Internet was focused, at that time, upon product pricing. ---- I think you're dead wrong on this.

It was hard to refute. ---- It was harder to refute the tool scam, a MUCH bigger problem than Amway pricing.

Originally, when we first got in, the per-use aspect of the products made it okay, it wasn’t such a hard sale. ---- It hasn't changed very much.

But the prices just seemed to continue to drift upward. ---- I agree there has been a "Walmart effect", of pricing lowering at other retailers, but this is still minor compared to the tool scam.

We got hit with the Procter & Gamble lawsuit, and there was a lot of confusion in the organization and the groups. ---- "We" was YOU.

The negative online started becoming a bigger problem. ---- That's because the tool scam facts started to gain traction.

The price of products became a problem, we slowly started going backwards. ---- You started going backwards mostly because of the tool scam, not the product pricing.

In the mid to late nineties, I was privy to several conversations with the company wherein we told them they needed lower priced products and they needed to do something about the negative on the Internet. ---- Perhaps it was their way of squeezing you out of some of your tool scam profit.

They always said they were "working on it," but they just didn’t ever do anything about it. ---- I think they did, see above answer.

Around 1998/1999, most of us were very frustrated with the Amway business. ---- Or was it your tool scam was being exposed?

We started to get to a point where we didn’t believe we were doing the right thing for the new people getting started. ---- Then you're a liar, because you didn't tell us.

Overall the numbers were going down, which meant when people were getting in they had less chance of succeeding than we did when we got started. ---- Again, your "success" was mostly from the tool scam, which was being exposed.

It is much more difficult when numbers are going down versus going up. ---- Duh.

Nobody seemed to have the answers on how to turn it around. ---- You weren't even truthful about the situation, how could you expect to come up with a good answer?

I am not sure exactly about all of the details of how Quixtar came into being, who did each little piece, but we decided we needed something that was not connected to Amway, and we needed something to align with the Internet. ---- Bill Britt takes full credit, go talk with him and his latest girlfriend.

We came up with what we thought would be the perfect business. ---- Perfect for who?

As we started into it, working with the company, we got one or two things out of a list of about ten that we thought would be necessary to really have a successful business. ---- And the IBOs didn't get anything when it came to what was keeping them from making a net profit, the tool scam. Cry me a river.

NONE of us wanted to have a company associated with Amway in any way. ---- Easier to hide the tool scam that way, right?

We were told it was a sister company and was disconnected. ---- Sure, same compensation plan, upline, products, same tool scam, but "disconnected." Yeah..., right!

They said it would be structured in a way so that we could say to people that it isn’t Amway and it would be true, that this new opportunity was not Amway in any way. ---- In ANY way? How stupid do you think we are?

From the very beginning in 1982, one of the things that attracted us to the business was Rich DeVos saying on one of his tapes that they would never change the business even 1% without the Board approving it. ---- That was prior to "the Board" refusing to shut down the tool scam.

We went along for a long time thinking the board would stand up and represent us and be our safety net if the people at the company ever tried to change the deal. ---- Too bad you didn't figure out that if you threaten Amway, you may have to pay later.

What we have seen happen, which most people are not aware of, is that every year the company is changing the rules. ---- It's YOUR responsibility to train your people, INCLUDING rule changes.

Very few people know what the changes are every year, but every year when they renew they agree to all of the new rules, now there are 95 pages of them! ---- That is largely to cover up the distortions the tool scam causes.

I would say that less than one tenth of one percent of the people knows about this. ---- And you made sure the number was kept low. Good job!

Over the last five or six years, they have totally changed the business model to where we are no longer independent business owners, we are more like employees. ---- No we're not, we order from Amway instead of our upline, so we are more like independent business owners than employees.

They have actually stated recently in the Texas court that they own our downline. ---- Ever hear of a metaphor?

Not only have we figured out that we are no longer independent, but we also have figured out that the board has no power whatsoever over the company. ---- You can thank the Board for that.

The board has always been an advisory group but now the company has chosen not to have the board approve decisions they are making. ---- See above, I'm not surprised at all.

They made the decision to change it to Amway and did not run it by the board until after the decision was made. ---- Good, serves you right.

Every person on the board was upset about this change. ---- They had a funny way of speaking out about it. Some leadership, huh?

When the board published their thoughts the company got upset and said they would either not renew their contract or they would now start to renew it one month at a time. ---- So the Board backed down, just like Amway did in 1983? Paybacks are tough, aren't they?

If the company will make a decision of this magnitude, what will they do next? ---- Hopefully shut down the tool scam, we're still waiting for that.

We sold people on the idea that the board was a protection. ---- I was "sold" on a lot of falsehoods, especially the tool scam.

I am very sorry, but that is definitely not true anymore. ---- Which makes it a step in the right direction.

People need to know that since many people based their future on this fact alone. ---- I based my future on the Amway business plan, not the tool scam.

That was always what we believed would prevent something like this huge change from happening. ---- I guess that makes you ignorant of the facts.

From 1995 when we started going backwards, up until June of 2006, I had gotten to the point over the last few years that I couldn’t represent the business. ---- But that didn't keep you from taking in your Amway and tool scam profit, did it?

I couldn’t show the plan, because I didn’t believe it was the right to get people involved in something that I didn’t believe was the right thing for them to do. ---- See above.

So I quit showing the plan a few years ago, and when we would go speak to our groups or other groups, we would totally focus on getting people to believe in themselves that they could do whatever they wanted to do in their lives. ---- See above.

We did all we knew how to give people confidence in themselves. ---- What was lacking was confidence that YOU were telling the truth.

We tried to build their self-esteem, but we could not get ourselves to tell them to go build the business. ---- We don't need sel-esteem as much as we need the truth.

It’s not a very good thing to live through to watch what happens when your best leaders cannot make progress. ---- If you had stopped lying, you may have been able to turn it around.

It’s worse to watch them go backwards and have to go back and get jobs after being free for a while. ---- They were only "free" because the tool scam made them free.

It’s terrible for them to tell their children that their dreams are not going to come true and all the things they talked about are not going to happen now. ---- Cry me a second river....THAT'S IT, I'M NOT GOING TO CONTINUE, I THINK YOU GET THE POINT. FEEL FREE TO FILL IN THE REST OF THE BLANKS FOR YOURSELF.

The whole thing started to get ugly. We watched many relationships get hurt between friends, leaders, and couples. Many times when we would go speak to other organizations the leaders would ask if we had any answers. The Diamonds would try to do their very best to help their groups but they were also hurting inside. We saw many Diamonds go above and beyond to help their people.

Then in the summer of 2006, through a series of events, after listening to the Brady’s speak at a function in June, I got the impression that they believed in what they were saying, and I knew they had had some growth, but didn’t know much about their organization. We didn’t know their techniques, methods, or philosophy. As Valorie and I sat and listened to Chris and Terri we were amazed that they knew so much about leadership. We finally figured out that they were a learning organization. We had never seen a team before that put so much emphasis on learning leadership. Then I hooked up with Orrin Woodward in August 2006, and we spent a day and a half together. Most of the conversation with Orrin was him asking how we were doing. At the end of the second day I was the one asking the questions because I was figuring out that Team was growing and had many people becoming successful. I started trying to get the information out of him. I asked him if it was possible for us to buy some of the Team tools. He said we could talk about it. I just couldn’t get it out of my mind that if we could get it to grow the impact it would have on the Emeralds; this would be a God-send for all my Emeralds who had had to go back and get jobs. We had over a hundred and some Emeralds, and most of them have had to go back and get jobs. I also got very excited about the possibility that a new person would have a great opportunity to become successful. We had several meetings with Orrin and the Team leaders and finally they decided that they would allow us to use their well thought out system. I knew after spending time with Team leaders, we wanted to be part of it. I had never seen anything like it before. The Team system was fair to everybody because there were no special deals. Orrin and Chris were on the same pay scale that all people were on even though they spent much of their time continuing to improve it. They didn’t take any extra money for doing it. So we partnered up with Team, and IMMEDIATELY we leveled off from going backwards, the organization as a whole started growing and moving forward, we hadn’t seen hope in people’s eyes like that for a long time. This was the most confidence and excitement we had seen in people for twelve or thirteen years. Most people could make progress because of the way the system was designed. So naturally when you can make progress you get very excited about making your dreams come true.

Valorie and I had dedicated our life to this thing as many of our leaders had. We had worked six or seven days a week for fifteen years. There were several years in a row where the longest period of time that Valorie and I were actually at our home was three days in a row. We were constantly on the road, we did meetings in every state in the U.S.; we put everything we had into this. We sacrificed time with our kids and put our entire life into this thing. And we were extremely blessed by many, many great leaders showing up in our organization. And many of them did the same thing that Valorie and I did. They were totally sold out to it. It became our life.

So finally, we get hooked up with the Team, with Orrin and Chris, and got things turned around. We started moving in a positive direction, and we just got things cooking when all of a sudden the company decides that they are going to have a total change in their business model. They are going to change their name back to Amway, they are going to put new requirements on us to retail even more overpriced products, they are going to give people who build width extra bonuses, that will hurt those who build depth, and I and many others reached the conclusion this model will not work for us. There are many things that I think are a problem with the new model. To start with nobody I have talked to so far wants to be in Amway. Especially after telling them they aren’t in Amway for seven years. It is very hard to understand why the names change when almost every builder in the field is against it.

Not for any amount of money am I going to lead a group of people down a road that I don’t think is the best thing for them to do. I have to believe when I show the plan to somebody that it is the best thing they should do for their own life or I can’t do it. I am not going to do that for money if it’s not the right thing to do for the new person. I could have laid back and done nothing but collected my checks and watch it die a slow death. I would have made the most money if I played it that way. The other choice is to do something else.

So eventually it comes to a head after the emergency Board meeting in July, and we decide that we have to leave, because we know for us the model isn’t going to work over the next 18-24 months. I don’t want to be in a position where I am standing up telling people they should do this when I don’t think they should. So we decided we would go have a negotiation meeting with the company, as they had told Orrin he could do, and see if they would give us a choice and let us go. Instead of having to set out six months, we were hoping they’d be a little lenient on us and let us go with a little shorter amount of time.

I told every one of them in that meeting on August 9th that I appreciated them, and I appreciated the relationship, and told them I just couldn’t put my heart in it. We were in the business for 25 years and we had developed great working relationships with most of the people that were in the meeting. I had a good relationship with most of them. They had been very good to me over the years. I wasn’t yelling or raising my voice. We had what I thought was a very good conversation. I was very sure that Rob and Jim were willing to talk about an amicable separation. Jim Payne and Rob Davidson both said that they understood. Jim Payne said, "I don’t think you can take everyone with you, but let’s talks about it and see what we can do." Rob Davidson said, "Hey, I understand. If you can’t put your heart in it and don’t want to do it, we understand. If I couldn’t put my heart into my job here, then I would be worthless here. So I understand."

I thought I was going into a meeting to negotiate us leaving in an amicable way where we could agree on both sides to make statements where neither side would be hurt. There was never a time during the meeting where we said or did anything out of line or unprofessional. What shocked me the most was that after 25 years of being loyal to this company, when they came back in, it’s almost like they had it preplanned, they knew what they were going to do, they just walked in and terminated Orrin and Chris because they said Orrin and Chris were not willing to fix things. At this point they already knew that all three of us wanted to leave the business so there was nothing to discuss on fixing things. They wouldn’t even discuss any of the points we had come up with about having an amicable separation.

The next thing I know, they are telling untruths about what went on in the meeting. What totally shocked me was they accused us of having an MLM put together, and that Orrin promised to solicit IBO’s in other groups, they said that Orrin was trash talking them, all things that weren’t true in any way. They made allegations with absolutely no proof whatsoever. I am shocked at how they have handled this. Calling or emailing people and giving them 24 hours to decide if they are going to be part of TEAM, which is a training system, or if they are going to choose Quixtar with no training system? This caught our team totally off guard. That doesn’t even make sense, first of all. Secondly, some of these are people who have been in the business for 25 years. They’ve been loyal. They know absolutely nothing about what is going on. Give them an ultimatum! Devastate their business! Affect their family’s income! They couldn’t have planned it worse than how they’ve handled this. How can their behavior ever be considered right? How does a company justify treating people that way?

Here’s the crazy thing. ALL they had to do was come back in that meeting and say, "Guys, we just don’t think we can bend the rules in any way; you’ve got to abide by the non-compete in the contract in full." Instead, they did it a different way. I think they have shown that they don’t care about the people at all.

This whole thing didn’t just happen one crazy day. The great people on the board have been working on many important issues for many years. It is sad that as the Wal-Mart effect took place where business’s had to reduce their prices to be competitive, that this company would not do that. The Families held on to their margins and would never let go. The MAC committee worked many hours tirelessly for years. The entire board worked on pricing for years. We got nothing. I reached a point where I couldn’t live with it anymore. If the only thing I wanted was money I could have just spun the whole story and spent the next 18-24 months trying to convince people that is was going to work and everything was going to be ok. That way I could have received my end of year bonus’s and $500,000 check for Founders Diamond in two years. Val and I would have done fine. I just could not do it. No matter how much money I could have made, I just couldn’t do it. Some people think we all of a sudden we just went crazy and lost our minds. No, I just got pushed over the edge of what is right and what is wrong and had to do what I thought was right.

There comes a time in a man or a woman’s life where you have to make the hard decisions. When you do, half of the people think you are crazy and the other half think you are right. You will need to make those decisions for yourself and your family when your time comes. It was a great ride for the first half of the trip and not so good over the last half. I do believe the future is bright. My one hope that I want to leave anybody that reads this is that I want you to know that inside of you are the seeds of greatness. God blessed you with special gifts that only you have. Learn what those gifts are. Val and I know that you can do anything in the world that you choose to do. You have to focus and always believe in yourself. Never beat yourself up for your past performance. Just keep on keeping on striving to make your dreams come true. We know you are going to do something great in your future. You can accomplish all you want and then some. Never give up on yourself. You know that it is better to go to bed tired knowing you give it your all than to go to bed lazy because you are striving for nothing. Keep on dreaming, it’s worth it. You are on your way to being the best. You will go beyond where you thought you could. We are proud of you for standing up against mediocrity and claiming yourself to be A DREAMER!! Yes, that is what you are and never ever forget it. Don’t let the fog take it away from you. You are the real deal my friend.

May God bless you and always be there for you,

Randy Haugen

Tex said...

Here's another typical tool scam story:

http://law.onecle.com/tax/2000/nissley.tcm.wpd01.html

Anonymous said...

Hello Tex,

We've finally talked after those "ugly" emails.
Now I don't care if you identify yourself. I've read some of the comments on your blog and believe your doing a great job. Some don't agree with you and have the "gall" to insult you simply because they refuse to "believe" the facts. Of course, you never have to "believe."
Facts are facts. And the tool scam is ONE BIG FAT FACT--regardless of who wants to accept it.
I joined Amway in 1994. And from the beginning sold out to the idea of having mentors available 24 hours a day if I so choose. I never questioned it. But I do remember needing some "THINK AND GROW RICH" books in Spanish. I they'd been available through upline they would have cost about $13.00 each. But I order directly from the publisher and paid something like $9.00 each. Didn't register.
Next I was contacted with taped a tape called "DEAD DOCTORS DON'T LIE" and liked the info so much that I ignored my upline and order me a few to send out too. I ordered 100 and paid less $90.00 including S&H. Still didn't register.
Therefore today after talking with Tex, I decided to join and vent my anger. Not about the money I gave away to the CLKs but because I know people who are being taken for the ride and I'm convinced Amway doesn't care.
If I can get someone to show me how to erase the faces of a couple of friends I'll post a video about this couple who were spending almost $700.00 a month in their business--about $200 of that pure profit for their LCK---WHILE LIVING IN A "DUMP".
Keep up the good work Tex.

Tex said...

Thanks Anon. You can use a "handle" by signing up on blogger. Be creative.

Dave may be able to help you with the faces being blocked out on a video, he's a very capable guy. Drop him a message on his blog: http://www.ontheroadwithdave.com/

Happy LCK "hunting"!!!

Anonymous said...

Hi Tex,
This Francisco (Chico) from San Jose
I just send a message to Norma from Alticor administration.

This is the message:
Hi Norma,



I really don't understand what I could share with you that is not posted somewhare on the web.

My story and my friend's story is not different from all the onter stories of people who got involved with amway with the hope to improve their lives only to find out later that we were part of an illigal pyramid.



The amway products I started using them even before I joined in 1994. To this day I have no big grudge against the products.



But I'm really upset about the tools scam. I am one of five brothers who got involved with amway in the nineties. We were all living together in the same house but this didn't stop our upline from pushing us into buying each a set of tapes. Now, how do you think I feel about all those people when I found out that more than .80 cents on the dollars were pure profit? I spent close to 150/month on the "system" for nine years.



My friends; they were really excited when they contacted me. After I explaied them how the tools scam was being perpetrated he was depressed for a few weeks. Not because I revealed a secret to him. No. He was depressed because he finally had seen the light. He had been asking his upline about irregularities and never got an answer. As we became friends he told me some horror stories. The same type as the ones we find on the internet. The same ones which prompt the diamonds to warn their people against; the reason for the diamonds to try to keep people out of internet blogs and sites like "Merchants of deception".



Two things this couple said that were really out of line are these:

1.--They told upline they wouldn't be ordering for the month because they needed to send money to their kids down in Mexico. To which the upline replied: "No. Focus on building your business. Your kids will not die if you dont send them money. Build and build and then you'll be able to provide them with anything they need.



2---This cookware set was the result of their upline wanting to qualify for a pin more than likely. They were living in a dump. They claim their upline told me to buy in preparation for when they achieve success.



Of course this is nothing compared to the tools scam. This people were really naive and somebody decided it was a good idea to exploit them. We added up the expenses and it came up something like at least 180/month giving away to their rich upline---while they were broke.



TELL ME THIS IS NOT OUT OF LINE!!!!



I don't need to go into my details because through the system of tools I learned to never cry.

But stories like theirs are really upsetting and amway doesn't seem care.



Thank you Norma.



Francisco.

Tex said...

Thanks for your story. Unfortunately, it is more typical than you may think it is.

millionare said...

Hi Tex,
This is the thread which started by you and who know where it is going to end. LOL. I'll follow it until stops. Or the scam gets stopped!!

Dear Manuel Depres,

There are no formal complaints. Only lots of resentment. My e-mail gives a very good explanation of the problem.
As far as I know, the United Kingdom has forced Amway to straighten the diamonds milking the downlines with the tools scam.
I no longer want to get involved with Amway. I left long ago. This thread was born out of my posting a Craigslist ad and getting "harrassed"
before being asked whether I was an IBO or not.

As far as I know in Amway has no rules about diamonds not milking their downlines. So I really don't understand what kind of complain I could submit to you that you are supposed to already know.

I've just talked with the owners of the cookware and asked them how come if they didn't have a place to live, they spent $1400.00 they didn't have?
The answer? Their upline encourage them into it.
You know what that means? Upline wanted to qualify.

I don't want to make a formal complain because to me it doesn't really matter anymore. I know Amway doesn't care. I've seen all the info in the internet that leads me to believe is so. I seen the response Doug DeVos gave to the filming done by NBC's DATELINE with Chris Hanson.

Such response showed me he has no interest in fixing this problem. And, frankly, if he has no interest, what can you do Manuel?

Thanks for letting me vent.

Francisco.
From: manuel.dipres@amwayglobal.com
Sent: Wed 6/17/09 7:56 AM
To: navarro_fr34@hotmail.com

Dear Francisco:

My name is Manuel and I am the Rules Administrator for Team Builders. I am not 100% aware of what is going on, but am willing to help with what ever I can.

Please send me your formal complaint and I can address the potential rules violations with the alleged individual(s).

Warm regards,

Manuel Diprés
Business Conduct & Rules
Phone: 616.787.7013
Fax: 616.787.7896
Email: manuel.dipres@amwayglobal.com



----- Forwarded by Rules Administration/CMN/Amway on 06/17/2009 10:38 AM -----
Rules Administration/CMN/Amway
06/17/2009 10:37 AM

To
navarro_fr34@hotmail.com
cc
Subject
Fw: Sure, Norma




Francisco,

Please be assured Amway Global does care about any abuse of the Rules of Conduct, including Business Support Materials and we follow up as necessary. Whenever there is a condition placed on the purchase of tools in exchange for support in building the Amway business, we consider this a serious issue. We are forwarding your email to your Line of Sponsorship Rules Administrator for further review and response. If you or the IBO you speak of in the below email wish to file a written complaint you may do so by providing details of the rules violations or questionable ethical conduct. This can be faxed to 616-787-7896.

Sincerely,

Norma
Rules Administration

millionare said...

Hi Tex, This is my response to Norma and her response to my e-mail which also went to Manuel.
Hope it help one more person realize the big problem with the scam.

Hi Norma,

I really appreciate your taking the time to address this issue. But please understand my position. I have long ago quit the Amway business. Since then I've learned all these abuses and also learned Amway doesn't care!!

And your e-mail clearly says it. Amway has rules and regulations. But it doesn't have rules about the abuses done by the diamonds. As I already explained to you, the tools are produced for a price but when they;re sold to downline the price is 500% of the production cost. Who keeps the 400%?
Amway has know about this for a long time.
As far as I know the United Kingdom has threatened to shut Amway down, unless the tools Scam is killed. And Amway clomplied. So the diamonds are no longer profitting from naive downlines.

NBC's DATELINE did a very good job at bringing this to the light.
And what did Doug DeVos do? Justify Amway's position instead of admitting the TOOLS IS A SCAM!!

That attitude tells me Amway doesn't care!!

Thanks Norma.

Francisco.

P.S. My friend and I are not interested in filing a formal complain. After watching said video and watching Doug's rebuttal to it, I wouldn't not want to wast a single peney pursuing legalities. I do this simply because I care about the newbies getting started with Amway and would like, just like many others, to see Amway get tough and bite the bullet and stop all--ALL----profit from tools.



Let's make Health our # 1 priority.






To: navarro_fr34@hotmail.com
Subject: Fw: Sure, Norma
From: Rules_Administration@amwayglobal.com
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 10:37:38 -0400


Francisco,

Please be assured Amway Global does care about any abuse of the Rules of Conduct, including Business Support Materials and we follow up as necessary. Whenever there is a condition placed on the purchase of tools in exchange for support in building the Amway business, we consider this a serious issue. We are forwarding your email to your Line of Sponsorship Rules Administrator for further review and response. If you or the IBO you speak of in the below email wish to file a written complaint you may do so by providing details of the rules violations or questionable ethical conduct. This can be faxed to 616-787-7896.

Sincerely,

Norma
Rules Administration

Tex said...

Francisco,

By posting, you have shown you DO care about others. I understand you don't want to get sucked into a legal dispute, but other innocent prospects and IBOs WILL get ripped off unless you and others like you speak out. Thanks for your posts.

I witnessed first-hand the requirement to buy tools to get upline support and Amway ignored my complaint. I went off standing order, my upline LCKs ignored me, then they got booted for other reasons (search "Amway Team Orrin" on google), and Amway wouldn't do ANYTHING to get me connected with another group. This whole story is very well documented.

Bottom line, you're right, Amway doesn't care about IBOs, only the LCKs. Amway won't do anything until the U.S. government takes action similar to the recent UK government action.

Tex said...

Here's the link to the original post where Beth claimed the tool profits are being exaggerated, the Friday, November 17th post:

http://amwayglobalinsider.opportunityzone.com/2006/07/27/Known-blogger.aspx#comments

And here's the link to the "retraction":

http://amwayglobalinsider.opportunityzone.com/2006/10/13/I-dont-know-what-I-dont-know.aspx

What goes unanswered is the VERY basic question of the business model, where the Emeralds and above make several times more from the tool scam than Amway, and most IBOs below Platinum operate at a net loss. If these FACTS were known to prospects and IBOs, there would be a mass exodus until tool prices were drastically reduced, in my humble opinion.

Tex said...

Here's the portion of the initial statment from the first thread mentioned above:

There’s lots of speculation on blogs and Web sites about what kind of money is made from the sales of these materials. A lot of information that’s out there is old and reflects the past, not the present. And while we don’t track IBO earnings off training and development, I can tell you what we hear, and what we hear is that’s what’s reported is highly exaggerated. Most importantly, and IBO leaders will tell you the same, IBO training and professional development systems exist to support successful Quixtar businesses – not the other way around.

Tex said...

Here's the entire followup discussion on a different thread. I was using the handle "Curious", but later changed to Tex, as Curious was already taken on other blogs:

I don't know what I don't know
Friday, October 13, 2006
Several comments and posts to other blogs recently have pointed out that I've left questions unanswered in posts and haven't addressed questions asked in comments to posts.

I haven't answered because I don't know what I don't know. Some questions I can easily respond to because I know the answers . Some questions I don't.

My southern father used to say there are three questions you never ask someone: how old they are, how much money they make, and how much they weigh. I added never ask if that's someone's real hair color (because if you have to ask, it probably isn't!) I don't know how much money IBO leaders make from the sale of BSMs. I don't know what the markup is on BSMs. Those and others are questions I can't answer because I don't have that information. Those questions can only be answered by those IBOs and LOAs that produce BSMs. I know this isn't the answer many of those watching this blog want. But my job isn't to track down that kind of personal income information from IBOs...I'm not inclined to ask any more than I'm inclined to answer questions about my earnings or net worth.

We've acknowledged that there have been issues with the sale of BSMs in the past. We've detailed the implementation of rules and consumer protections regarding the sale of BSMs. We recently launched the Quixtar Professional Development Accreditation Program to recognize organizations that are standard bearers in the production and sale of BSMs. We've taken every step of every change in cooperation with IBO leaders instead of working against them. Is there more work to be done in this area? Yes, and as changes continue to be made, we'll be communicating them here and elsewhere.

For every person who complains about BSMs there's an IBO who claims they wouldn't have built a successful business without them. But for those who feel they made investments in BSMs that weren't of value, there are remedies like customer satisfaction policies that I've detailed on this blog and that are more fully explained at www.quixtar.com.

One of our biggest frustrations is to find out someone has had an issue but didn't seek resolution -- especially when we find out because they've posted to a blog or done a media interview. We'd much rather they contact their upline for a refund on BSMs or the company regarding an issue with a product or service and get a refund or some other form of satisfaction.

I know this post will unleash some criticism. There are some who won't be satisfied with any corporate response or any answer (or in this case, non-answer.) So it goes. And to those who suggest that we're still sitting on the bleachers instead of getting in the game....we're on the field, but we're just not swinging at every pitch.

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Comments
Curious said:
Friday, November 17, 2006 #
Does this mean you retract your statement in an earlier post, that the tool profit rumors you heard were exaggerations?

Beth Dornan said:
Friday, November 17, 2006 #
No, I don't retract that because I had heard that those were exaggerations. But do I know it definitively? No.

Curious said:
Friday, November 17, 2006 #
Thanks, that is all I needed to know about that issue.

Tex said...

They still don't get it, or don't want to admit they do. Here's a recent post, with my response, which may or may not get posted.

http://amwayglobalinsider.opportunityzone.com/2009/07/13/Does-he-or-doesnt-he.aspx

Amway Global encourages its IBOs to be open, honest, and transparent in all interactions with prospects, customers, and other IBOs. ---- No, you don't. If you did, you would REQUIRE the amount of tool profit to become common knowledge to prospects and IBOs. This would be the TRUE open, honest, and transparent position. If the amount of tool profit were minor, it would be a minor issue. However, it is well documented tool profit is THE major source of income for many, if not most, Emerald pins and above. Not only that, but the tool prices and practices result in most IBOs below Platinum operating at a net loss. This was an inexcusable situation years ago, and now with modern communication technologies, it is totally unacceptable.

Tex said...

Here's a revised comment: Amway Global encourages its IBOs to be open, honest, and transparent in all interactions with prospects, customers, and other IBOs. ---- If the "all" means Amway Global related interactions, you're right. If you mean "all" interactions, then no, you don't, because the separate tool companies the upline run would come clean regarding tool profit level, consistent with the UK court decision last year. In fact, you would REQUIRE the amount of tool profit to become common knowledge to prospects and IBOs. This would be the TRUE open, honest, and transparent position. If the amount of tool profit were minor, it would be a minor issue. However, it is well documented tool profit is THE major source of income for many, if not most, Emerald pins and above. Not only that, but the tool prices and practices result in most IBOs below Platinum operating at a net loss. This was an inexcusable situation years ago, and now with modern communication technologies, it is totally unacceptable.

Francisco said...

Tex, this is Chico.
I'd like to ask you, or rather make a suggestion to you. Could you keep it out of the blog until you decide whether I make sense or not?

Chico.

Tex said...

This is an open forum. You can post whatever question you have here or email me.

Anonymous said...

I could care less about tool profit. So What?? They help build the business. I hope my up-line makes tons of money from tools. No business is free, and tools are part of this business. It is not a get rich scam, you have to work it just like any other business. You follow the system and it works, you try to short cut the system, it doesn't work. Tools are part of the system. Gosh, I think I will build a house, but I don't want to buy a hammer, I just want to use string.

Tex said...

Anon,

You need to use a "handle" name so different "anonymous" posters aren't confused for each other. Below is my response to your post.

I could care less about tool profit. ---- The term is "I couldn't care less...." If you could care less, it means you care, and you obviously don't.

So What?? ---- See below.

They help build the business. ---- They also help you lose money until you reach Platinum, which means you will have created a grou of several dozen new IBOs losing money.

I hope my up-line makes tons of money from tools. ---- That is similar to saying, "I hope I get my pocket picked every time I go somewhere.

No business is free, and tools are part of this business. ---- I never suggested the tools should be free.

It is not a get rich scam, you have to work it just like any other business. ---- If it isn't, why aren't the tool profits discussed as openly as the Amway profits?

You follow the system and it works, you try to short cut the system, it doesn't work. ---- I thought tools are optional, and the upline is required, by rule, to help you.

Tools are part of the system. ---- Correction: The tool SCAM is part of the system.

Gosh, I think I will build a house, but I don't want to buy a hammer, I just want to use string. ---- Would you buy that hammer for $400? That is the equivalent of what you are paying for the "privelige" of building the house.

Marvin said...

Hi Tex!

I think the transparency you seek regarding profits on tools is valid. Funny that I never thought of it before when I was active in Amway.

In fairness though, the tools promoted to us in Amway Philippines by Network 21 was less costly than buying a comparable one at the stores. I don't know what the costs are in USA.

We also had the privilege of having books (say Rich Dad Poor Dad, Personality Plus, Five Love Languages, etc.) way before they appeared in National Bookstore, the leading bookstore here.

As explained in my blog site, while I say I didn't earn money in Amway, that was because I stopped. But I'm grateful for the habit that Network 21 inculcated in me and my wife.

Anyhow, I pray for those uplines who make more money from tools than from the business itself. I personally am wary about gurus who make more money from teaching stuff, than from the stuff itself. That's an integrity question to me.

Marvin

Tex said...

Marvin, thanks for posting. My response to your post is below:

I think the transparency you seek regarding profits on tools is valid. Funny that I never thought of it before when I was active in Amway. ---- Thanks, I didn't think about it for a long time either. But then again, when we are systematically lied to and the Amway corporation is complicit in covering it up, it is unreasonable to expect most people to think of it, especially with all the "love bombing" the upline does.

In fairness though, the tools promoted to us in Amway Philippines by Network 21 was less costly than buying a comparable one at the stores. I don't know what the costs are in USA. ---- Most stores don't expect you to continually buy tools, and stores aren't telling you to buy tools to succeed in a different business and then make most of their money from the tools, which is EXACTLY what the upline does.

We also had the privilege of having books (say Rich Dad Poor Dad, Personality Plus, Five Love Languages, etc.) way before they appeared in National Bookstore, the leading bookstore here. ---- There are plenty of books available in bookstores that would be effective. I think part of the strategy is for the upline to promote new books as they come out, to make their prices more cost competitive with the stores.

As explained in my blog site, while I say I didn't earn money in Amway, that was because I stopped. But I'm grateful for the habit that Network 21 inculcated in me and my wife. ---- You should be proud you quit, or YOU would have been responsible for dozens or even hundreds of other IBOs getting ripped off. I'm not saying the PRINCIPLES taught are bad, in fact, they are very good. It's the LYING about the business model that's the problem.

Anyhow, I pray for those uplines who make more money from tools than from the business itself. I personally am wary about gurus who make more money from teaching stuff, than from the stuff itself. That's an integrity question to me. ---- I'm glad you agree on this one, but I think it's too late for prayer to save the upline, they will meet the wrath of God when they die.

Tex said...

Thanks for the compliment. The site will be truly useful when the tool scam is history.

Anonymous said...

Hey Tex,

I've seen your unprofessional conduct with Mike McCormick on your blog.
You sound credible, you look like a sharp guy but as Mike McCormick said, your dizzying intellect is what steals away your credibility.
Tool scam? Where's the scam? I honestly don't feel I've been scammed in any form with the tools.

Anonymous said...

This is Francisco.
The scam is not an easy thing for somebody who's has feed on the system for a while. In the system I heard "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". And that's why yo don't see it.
If the tools cost less than $2.00(in the case of a CD) to make and sold for $8.00, there is a profit of $6.00. Multiply that for a 30% of the 3 Million IBOs and you have a whooping 1.9 Billion profit!! Who keeps it? Since you're not willing to accept the tools scam, will you be willing to clarify where is this money?

Tex said...

Anon,

McCormick was the unprofessional one. He kept changing the conditions he would communicate, and attempted to bully me around. When I wouldn't kiss his butt, he left. Simple as that.

Tex said...

Francisco,

Not all 3 million IBOs participate in the tool scam, but the scam also includes books, meetings, web sites, voice mail, etc.

Anonymous said...

I saw a guy the other day who bought a car that turned out to be a lemon. Every day since he sits across the street from the car lot with signs that read "don't buy here. Lemons for sale!!!"

In his mind, he is a pariah out to cut through the trickery and deception. However, to everyone that sees him, he is a just a loser with no friends, family, or money. Just someone to chuckle at for a few seconds before moving on to more important things.

Tex, see if you can derive some personal meaning out of this story.

Anonymous said...

BTW what kind of name is TEX. Are you like a cattle rustler or something???

David said...

http://jsjerald.blogspot.com/2009/10/is-amway-ethical-business-model.html

I argue with IBOFB in response to the above post. Please check above link for details.

Tex said...

Anon,

Your "lemon" story is stupid, and has very little to do with reality.

Anon #2,

Tex has more meaning than anonymous, I am an LCK rustler.

Anthony Laurent said...

Hi Tex,

I used to be an Amway and Quixtar rep. I have some extensive experience in MLM and I really try to keep it positive but honest. I think the best advice I can give is by just telling the truth. You can check out an article I wrote about Quixtar/Amway. Also if you had a chance to read my book it lays out all the warning signs about mlm scams and posers. You can find my article at http://anthonylaurent.com. Hope to talk to you soon. God bless.

Anthony Laurent
http://mlm-on-steroids.com

Anonymous said...

This Francisco
Sure the guy who bought the "lemon" is a looser with no friends nor family. Poor guy he has no other way of warning the world about this place where they "sell" "lemons" (rip off).
Why is it that Amway people can advertise their upline's lies to the world as truth but we the critics can't warn the victims? The main questions I've been posting have never been answered by anybody. Every IBO who wants to discuss this issue sees me as an idiot who knows nothing. Interestingly enough, I was recognized as an upcoming star, extremely bright and inteligent when I was in Amway.

Anonymous said...

This is Francisco again.
I feel the lesson of the "lemon" is more obvious than any lesson learned in any CD, Book, or Function: don't ever buy blindly, hoping the salesman is telling you the truth. (remember hope is the worst business strategy)
Uplines are, by far, the best "lemon" salespeople in the world.
Ignore the "looser's" warning at your peril.

Tex said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

GET A LIFE! Are you one of those unsuccessful people who put all your hopes and dreams in this one MLM business? Perhaps you were just inadequate as a salesperson so you've decided to dedicate your life as a "one man" martyr against Amway. Well I can tell you if you were unsuccessful it's because you're a total ASS with no friends to sell to. Lay off you retard! If people are stupid enough to put their time and money into this, so be it. Whats it to you? Some will succeed some won't...who cares? Dedicating your life to something that means nothing isn't going to make you important...which is obviously something you want to be and have never attained.

Kind Regards,

Someone not stupid enough to have gotten into Amway in the first place.

Tex said...

Anon,

Get a clue. I'll bet you're too scared to even talk to me on the phone. LOL

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